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These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.
| 07:18:46 | <idmclean> | logger, pointer. |
| 07:18:47 | <logger> | See http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-06-07#T08-18-45 |
| 07:23:45 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, do you have the link to the core ontology for aLoL? |
| 08:10:13 | <idmclean> | tobyink0, can I get the link to the Core again, please? |
| 10:09:08 | <Anchakor> | idmclean: hi, I got something, but I guess I would have to bootstrap a simple self-interpreter to have some solid foundation, now it is pretty mess |
| 10:28:43 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, I expect that you mean you've got your basic rdf system running? |
| 10:33:48 | <Anchakor> | idmclean: nono, not by far now :) |
| 10:35:48 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, you would need to elaborate on what you mean by you've got something. |
| 10:37:41 | <Anchakor> | idmclean: well I wrote a simple example program in the ontology and tried to go from that, getting stuck many times... |
| 10:39:10 | <Anchakor> | idmclean: programs are really complex things, having many aspects, so the goal is to make a simple self-interpreter and extend it later |
| 10:42:29 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, I'd be interested in seeing what you've got, but I am going to rest for a couple of hours. Leave a message with Phenny, and I'll read over it when I get up. Alternatively, send me a copy of what you've got in my email, and I'll check it when I get up. |
| 10:44:47 | <Anchakor> | idmclean: ok /msg me you mail address |
| 11:04:30 | <leobard> | hiho |
| 19:46:01 | <danja_> | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/what-a-non-neutral-net-looks-like.ars |
| 19:46:24 | <danja_> | A:| What a non-neutral 'Net looks like, UK-style |
| 19:47:35 | <PovAddict> | ACTION wants to write an IRC bot that stores information in an RDF graph instead of key->value factoids |
| 19:47:37 | <danja_> | A: re. BT throttling |
| 20:08:13 | <bosky101> | is this the right place to talk about rdfa? |
| 20:08:26 | <bosky101> | i noticed that rdfa having an attribute to describe the namespace ...such as xmlns:v="http://rdf.data-vocabulary.org/#" |
| 20:08:49 | <bosky101> | can any uri be given , where i construct my own vocab ? and what are the intentions of providing such a resoruce |
| 20:35:31 | <KjetilK> | bosky101, yes, if you create your own vocabulary, any URI can be used. But it is a good idea to first look around to see if there is allready a vocabulary that cover you needs |
| 20:35:43 | <Pipian> | Just reworked currency URIs. |
| 20:35:44 | <phenny> | Pipian: 05 Jun 13:50Z <MacTed> ask Pipian to please add http://telegraphis.net/data/ dumps and other info to http://esw.w3.org/topic/DataSetRDFDumps , http://esw.w3.org/topic/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/DataSets/LinkStatistics , http://esw.w3.org/topic/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/DataSets/Statistics , http://esw.w3.org/topic/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/DataSets , etc. |
| 20:35:59 | <Pipian> | http://telegraphis.net/data/currencies/ |
| 20:36:31 | <bosky101> | KjetilK, where can i find a list of vocabs? |
| 20:36:48 | <KjetilK> | bosky101, then, if you create your own it is also a good idea to publish your vocabulary at that URI, so even though you can use anything it is a good idea to be able to control the URI |
| 20:36:55 | <Pipian> | B:| LOD data set of currency, reworked from Wikipedia to avoid potential copyright issue with scraping ISO table. |
| 20:37:18 | <KjetilK> | bosky101, there is a bunch at http://www.schemaweb.info/ |
| 20:37:20 | <Pipian> | B:Also with SPARQL and voiD descriptions. |
| 20:37:41 | <KjetilK> | I haven't been looking around too much lately, and schemaweb, the site, not the list, is pretty outdated |
| 20:38:37 | <bosky101> | KjetilK, but it's interesting to see so many vocabs. im planning to make an experimental one of my own |
| 20:38:53 | <KjetilK> | bosky101, yeah, it can be a nice exercise! :-) |
| 20:41:08 | <bosky101> | inside rdf vocabs, when ppl point to purl.org, do they mean that you need to fill in with a persistent url of ur own...or do they actually mean that literally? |
| 20:41:20 | <Shepard> | Pipian: I get an error when accessing http://telegraphis.net/data/currencies/EUR#EUR |
| 20:41:32 | <Shepard> | <b>Fatal error</b>: Call to undefined function n3Header() in <b>/home/pipian/www/telegraphis/data/common/rdf.inc.php</b> on line <b>221</b><br /> |
| 20:41:42 | <Pipian> | Hm |
| 20:41:59 | <Pipian> | Let me fix that. Must not have fully renamed functions when I was renaming stuff to turtle/ttl instead of n3 |
| 20:42:24 | <Pipian> | That should do it. |
| 20:42:39 | <Shepard> | that's better :) |
| 20:44:26 | <Shepard> | nice stuff |
| 20:46:47 | <Pipian> | With the countries, URIs exist, but none use the ISO-3166 codes, dereferenceable to semantics, and have a SPARQL endpoint, so this solves that problem |
| 21:01:56 | <PovAddict> | ACTION wants a Kate plugin for n3 syntax highlighting! |
| 21:19:33 | <Pipian> | ACTION has considered taking SyntaxHighlighter extension (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/11588) and making it actually usable (registering MIME types and the like)... |
| 21:19:47 | <Pipian> | 'twould solve the N3 syntax problem in Firefox :) |
| 21:20:25 | <Pipian> | (for those of you without Tabulator anyway :) ) |
| 21:20:33 | <PovAddict> | I'd also like a tool to visualize RDF the way it's meant to be: a *graph* |
| 21:21:25 | <kennyluck> | PovAddict, I am sure SIMILE has one |
| 21:21:55 | <Pipian> | Alright, think that's enough Linked Data work for the day. Now it's a game of waiting to hear back from the people I sent scatter-shot e-mails to. |
| 21:22:11 | <PovAddict> | ...a non-web tool, that I can associate to text/rdf+n3 on my computer |
| 21:22:29 | <Pipian> | Then maybe I can officially push the Airport data up :) |
| 21:22:58 | <Pipian> | But as long as it's licensed under AGPL :-| |
| 21:28:23 | <melvster> | PovAddict: one example of rdf as a graph: http://devel.patrickgmj.net/GEG/arc/plugins/testGG.html |
| 21:28:41 | <PovAddict> | I guess I want rdf-to-graphviz :P |
| 21:29:09 | <PovAddict> | that flash thing is stupid, nodes are so close to each other that you can't easily read them, and the edges are completely covered |
| 21:30:24 | <melvster> | what about: http://simile.mit.edu/welkin/ |
| 21:31:05 | <PovAddict> | ACTION lowers his requirements |
| 21:31:14 | <PovAddict> | something that doesn't look like a graph will also work |
| 21:31:34 | <melvster> | or: http://semweb.salzburgresearch.at/apps/rdf-gravity/user_doc.html |
| 21:31:41 | <PovAddict> | all I want is to click an URL that returns an n3 document, and *not* have my system show a dumb text editor for it |
| 21:32:50 | <melvster> | and: http://www.w3.org/2001/11/IsaViz/ |
| 21:32:51 | <PovAddict> | when I click HTML URLs I don't see HTML code, so why should I see n3 or RDF/XML code? |
| 21:33:22 | <PovAddict> | especially since the n3 doesn't even show with syntax highlighting, and I don't understand the syntax myself :P |
| 21:33:41 | <hg> | Pipian, thanks for the telegraphis links - harvested to sameas.org |
| 21:34:02 | <Pipian> | n/p |
| 21:36:54 | <melvster> | mind you no one said a graph is *meant* to be a visual thing |
| 21:37:11 | <PovAddict> | right, hence my requirement lowering |
| 21:37:38 | <melvster> | a geometry is visual, a graph is more a topology, so no strict visualisation |
| 21:37:48 | <PovAddict> | I don't really need a graph, I just don't want raw xml or n3 :) |
| 21:50:02 | <drobilla> | graphviz sort of blows up on very large graphs :/ |
| 21:50:15 | <PovAddict> | I know |
| 21:50:17 | <drobilla> | (there is a graphviz serializer in redland as well) |
| 21:50:42 | <PovAddict> | but I feel it's hard to make ad-hoc RDF graphs while testing |
| 21:51:01 | <drobilla> | ACTION just writes turtle |
| 21:51:27 | <PovAddict> | what can I use to "test" the turtle I'm writing? |
| 21:51:36 | <PovAddict> | I mean I'm not even sure what I'd use to see if it's valid syntax |
| 21:51:56 | <PovAddict> | let alone to check if I'm making a sane ontology :) |
| 21:52:18 | <drobilla> | I just run it through rapper, which will complain if it's illegal |
| 21:53:17 | <drobilla> | ontology validation I don't know, but if you find one let me know :) |
| 21:53:28 | <PovAddict> | no, not ontology validation |
| 21:53:32 | <drobilla> | (last I checked they all assumed ridiculous anti-rdf things about the file) |
| 21:53:49 | <PovAddict> | a way to visualize the graph to I can manually check if I'm doing something sane or not |
| 21:53:52 | <PovAddict> | while making my own ontology |
| 21:54:11 | <PovAddict> | I don't care about validating a graph against an OWL or something like that |
| 21:54:24 | <drobilla> | turtle/n3 is a lot more intuitive than you imply, IMO |
| 21:54:32 | <drobilla> | once you get used to it |
| 21:54:37 | <PovAddict> | I dunno, I'm so lost atm |
| 21:54:39 | <PovAddict> | :) |
| 21:57:20 | <PovAddict> | graphviz format is fairly intuitive too but I still run "dot -Tpng < myfile.dot | display -" very regularly |
| 21:59:16 | <drobilla> | rapper+dot does a half decent job for a similar thing |
| 22:00:22 | <PovAddict> | two errors so far |
| 22:00:33 | <PovAddict> | 1. I ran rapper projects.n3 and it said it was invalid XML |
| 22:00:54 | <PovAddict> | guess it doesn't look at the file extension or do format auto-detection :) -iturtle fixed it |
| 22:01:07 | <drobilla> | rapper -g |
| 22:01:09 | <PovAddict> | 2. I used <subj> <pred> <obj>, forgot final period |
| 22:01:10 | <drobilla> | or rapper -i turtle |
| 22:01:17 | <PovAddict> | so thanks for rapper :) |
| 22:01:21 | <drobilla> | (why the default isn't guess I don't know) |
| 22:01:29 | <PovAddict> | first time I use n3 so... :) |
| 22:01:41 | <drobilla> | (death to rdf/xml) |
| 22:02:04 | <PovAddict> | rapper -iturtle projects.n3 -odot | dot -Tpng | display - |
| 22:02:04 | <PovAddict> | \o/ |
| 22:04:38 | <PovAddict> | hmm can I make aliases to avoid typing URIs dozens of times? |
| 22:05:38 | <PovAddict> | not a prefix; I want to make a dozen triples giving information about things in URIs I don't control |
| 22:06:12 | <drobilla> | I guess you could make a prefix that's the entire URI? |
| 22:06:21 | <PovAddict> | hmm maybe |
| 22:06:30 | <drobilla> | if "prefix:" is valid grammar |
| 22:06:49 | <PovAddict> | hmm... equivalence |
| 22:06:52 | <PovAddict> | ACTION is reading http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/Primer.html |
| 22:08:30 | <PovAddict> | .prefix foaf |
| 22:08:35 | <PovAddict> | hmm |
| 22:08:43 | <PovAddict> | wasn't there a bot that did that? :) |
| 22:10:24 | <PovAddict> | ACTION keeps forgetting periods at end of statements |
| 22:18:04 | <PovAddict> | I guess n3 != turtle |
| 22:19:54 | <drobilla> | yeah, rapper won't deal with the non-rdf things in n3 |
| 22:20:07 | <PovAddict> | what about = to mean owl:sameAs? |
| 22:20:19 | <drobilla> | don't think so |
| 22:20:23 | <PovAddict> | it's in the Primer I linked above |
| 22:20:27 | <PovAddict> | but that primer is for n3 |
| 22:20:38 | <drobilla> | when in doubt, check the spec. it's small |
| 22:21:39 | <drobilla> | presumably omitted to avoid the grammar depending on non-rdf(s) ontologies |
| 22:21:53 | <drobilla> | ACTION wishes turtle was trix though. a lot. |
| 22:22:16 | <PovAddict> | ok so I could just use owl prefix |
| 22:22:32 | <drobilla> | yep |
| 22:22:52 | <PovAddict> | * drobilla wishes turtle was trix <- ? |
| 22:23:40 | <drobilla> | PovAddict: turtle + graphs: http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/TriG/ |
| 22:23:47 | <drobilla> | uh, trig, not trix. heh. |
| 22:23:52 | <PovAddict> | ahh |
| 22:23:58 | <drobilla> | silly rabbit, trig is for triples |
| 22:24:04 | <PovAddict> | I just searched for trix and it looks stupidly verbose |
| 22:24:20 | <PovAddict> | if you're really going to represent it as groups of three URLs, why use XML at all? :) |
| 22:24:43 | <PovAddict> | oh looks like what trig is about :) |
| 22:25:21 | <drobilla> | hm? trig is just turtle with {} for graphs |
| 22:25:32 | <PovAddict> | "The TriG syntax offers a compact and readable alternative to the XML-based TriX syntax." |
| 22:25:51 | <PovAddict> | and it's right, TriX is not compact and not readable :D |
| 22:25:54 | <drobilla> | ACTION didn't even know trix was a thing |
| 22:26:17 | <drobilla> | does it suck less than rdf/xml? it is even possible not to? :) |
| 22:26:26 | <PovAddict> | TriX is: |
| 22:26:26 | <PovAddict> | <triple> |
| 22:26:26 | <PovAddict> | <uri>http://example.org/Bob</uri> |
| 22:26:26 | <PovAddict> | <uri>http://example.org/wife</uri> |
| 22:26:26 | <PovAddict> | <uri>http://example.org/Mary</uri> |
| 22:26:27 | <PovAddict> | </triple> |
| 22:26:35 | <PovAddict> | verbose as hell |
| 22:26:38 | <drobilla> | ah, this one |
| 22:27:11 | <drobilla> | ACTION should finish and publish his s-expession based syntax |
| 22:27:25 | <drobilla> | forget all this verbose redundant angle bracket nonsense :D |
| 22:29:48 | <PovAddict> | .p foaf |
| 22:29:57 | <PovAddict> | cmon, I'm SURE there was a bot giving that info |
| 22:31:37 | <drobilla> | dc_swig? |
| 22:31:46 | <PovAddict> | .uri foaf |
| 22:31:59 | <PovAddict> | .uri geo |
| 22:32:05 | <PovAddict> | it was pheny |
| 22:32:20 | <drobilla> | /msg <bot> help ;) |
| 22:32:37 | <kennyluck> | Sorry, PovAddict, pheny is currently broken. |
| 22:32:41 | <PovAddict> | oic |
| 22:32:59 | <PovAddict> | .g test |
| 22:32:59 | <phenny> | PovAddict: http://www.test.com/ |
| 22:33:10 | <PovAddict> | phenny answers some and pheny answers others :) |
| 22:33:53 | <kennyluck> | Because it was a hack from me and I hoped the original author of phenny would take over, PovAddict. |
| 22:34:17 | <kennyluck> | ACTION is busy working on other stuff |
| 23:07:54 | <PovAddict> | how do I search the whole intertubes for classes derived from foaf:Agent? |
| 23:08:08 | <PovAddict> | I know there was a search engine that could do such things on triples, but I can't find it now |
| 23:17:32 | <Anchakor> | PovAddict: like this? http://sindice.com/search?q=*+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2F01%2Frdf-schema%23subClassOf%3E+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fxmlns.com%2Ffoaf%2F0.1%2FAgent%3E&qt=advanced |
| 23:17:40 | <PovAddict> | sindice! that's it |
| 23:18:55 | <Anchakor> | I wish it could do search with 2 wildcards though |
| 23:19:06 | <PovAddict> | I'm looking for a predicate to say the boinc:Project http://boinc.rechenkraft.net/yoyo/ is part of the foaf:Organization http://www.rechenkraft.net |
| 23:19:51 | <PovAddict> | or that Sindice was created by DERI |
| 23:20:57 | <danja_> | Swoogle and/or Falcons might help |
| 23:21:14 | <danja_> | .g esw wiki semantic web search engines |
| 23:21:14 | <phenny> | danja_: http://esw.w3.org/topic/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/SemanticWebSearchEngines |
| 23:21:23 | <PovAddict> | I tried searching for rdfs:range foaf:Organization |
| 23:23:53 | <PovAddict> | and I just casually found this which looks quite useful, even if unrelated :) |
| 23:23:55 | <PovAddict> | http://owl.mindswap.org/2003/submit-rdf/license.rdf |
| 23:24:21 | <PovAddict> | A:software license ontology? |
| 23:27:29 | <PovAddict> | ACTION also wonders if a boinc:Project could be a foaf:Agent... |
| 23:33:12 | <PovAddict> | or a sioc:Site |
| 23:39:24 | <LeeF> | Are there any other dbpedia SPARQL endpoints besides dbpedia.org/sparql and lod.openlinksw.com/sparql? can't get either of those to run a query for me right now |
| 23:40:59 | <LeeF> | hmm, the dbpedia.org one started responding, so i'll go with that one for now |
| 23:55:06 | <snail> | drobilla: i'm sure we can come up with something that sucks more that rdf/xml, maybe introduce a requirement for an XML schema? |
| 23:55:27 | <snail> | answering hours-old questions++ |
| 23:57:22 | <PovAddict> | lol |
| 23:57:52 | <PovAddict> | use xhtml2.0 for inspiration |
| 23:58:13 | <PovAddict> | start tag: |
| 23:58:13 | <PovAddict> | <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2002/06/xhtml2/" version="XHTML 2.0" xml:lang="en" |
| 23:58:13 | <PovAddict> | xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" |
| 23:58:13 | <PovAddict> | xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml |
| 23:58:13 | <PovAddict> | http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/SCHEMA/xhtml2.xsd"> |
| 23:58:35 | <PovAddict> | add XML declaration and doctype for good measure |
| 23:58:51 | <drobilla> | beats html 5 ;) |
| 23:59:10 | <PovAddict> | html5 doctype / start tag is one of its only good features |
| 23:59:28 | <PovAddict> | from a practical standpoint, at least |
| 23:59:57 | <PovAddict> | ACTION would rather have no doctype, and a start tag with a namespace but nothing else (no XML Schema nonsense) |
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