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These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.
| 02:08:34 | <dajobe> | sigh, where is the patch to rdflib to make it work properly with the grddl test runner |
| 02:12:11 | <dajobe> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007May/0077.html |
| 02:12:36 | <dajobe> | A:|patch to rdflib to make it work with grddl testft.py (May 2007) |
| 02:12:44 | <dajobe> | A:patches rdflib 2.4.0 (Apr 2007) |
| 03:13:26 | <chimezie_> | A:I see the diff has been applied to trunk: http://svn.rdflib.net/trunk/rdflib/syntax/parsers/RDFXMLHandler.py |
| 03:16:44 | <chimezie_> | A:"r1136 | chimezie | 2007-05-31 17:22:58 -0400 (Thu, 31 May 2007) | 1 line - fixes to RDF/XML parser to better handle xml:base (in particular the source URI of the RDF sink is handed down and used in the absence of an xml:base)." |
| 03:17:26 | <dajobe> | if there was a working bug tracker, a viewcv view of the repository, a working SVN repo or a changelog, I might have been able to find it earlier |
| 03:19:21 | <chimezie> | ACTION wonders if there is any literature on reducing SPARQL to datalog queries for relational databases |
| 04:40:26 | <dajobe> | I give up, can anyone explain to me why the GRDDL loopx tests should return anything? |
| 04:40:38 | <dajobe> | starting at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#loopx |
| 04:42:00 | <dajobe> | "For this particular test, an XML document is its own namespace document" => no it isn't |
| 05:16:44 | <kasei> | crontab -e |
| 05:16:56 | <kasei> | oops. wrong window. |
| 05:48:09 | <dajobe> | ACTION emails his cry for help to grddl-comments and calls it quits |
| 09:45:21 | <xi_> | ugh |
| 09:45:46 | <xi_> | the 'microformats' API that just got merged into firefox is a 146.24 KB patch |
| 09:45:58 | <xi_> | my jQuery RDFa discoverer/parser is abuot 10 lines of js |
| 09:46:16 | <xi_> | i guess they like to specal case their discovery for each format.. well then they dont have any other options |
| 09:48:15 | <xi_> | full of lines like: |
| 09:48:23 | <xi_> | if (((((propnode.localName.toLowerCase() == "abbr") || (propnode.localName.toLowerCase() == "html:abbr")) && !propnode.namespaceURI) || ((propnode.localName.toLowerCase() == "abbr") && (propnode.namespaceURI == "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"))) && (propnode.getAttribute("title"))) { |
| 09:48:28 | <xi_> | ACTION rolls over and pukes |
| 09:48:40 | <m94mni> | eugh, really? |
| 09:48:59 | <xi_> | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=279849 |
| 09:49:07 | <m94mni> | well, all the easier to argue for RDFa / GRDDL |
| 09:49:13 | <xi_> | B: firefox 'Microformat API' rolled into trunk |
| 09:49:30 | <xi_> | yeah. whats so hard about realizing 'write the parser once - data infinitely extensible' |
| 09:50:45 | <xi_> | var dateArray = string.match(/(\d\d\d\d)(?:-?(\d\d)(?:-?(\d\d)(?:[T ](\d\d)(?::?(\d\d)(?::?(\d\d)(?:\.(\d+))?)?)?(?:([-+Z])(?:(\d\d)(?::?(\d\d))?)?)?)?)?)?/); |
| 09:51:00 | <xi_> | nice of them to tuck that regex instead of make JS's Date class _finaly_ support iso8601. what year is this? |
| 09:52:45 | <Arnia> | xi_: 'worse is better'... apparently |
| 09:52:53 | <xi_> | if (this.org && this.org[0]["organization-name"] && (this.fn != this.org[0]["organization-name"])) { |
| 09:52:57 | <Arnia> | Even when it is obviously a case of 'worse is worse' |
| 09:53:17 | <xi_> | sweet, unqualified unprefixed string representing organization-name, hardcoded into firefox source |
| 09:53:22 | <Arnia> | xi_: Is your RDFa jQuery API available anywhere? |
| 09:53:25 | <m94mni> | well "works is better", I suppose |
| 09:53:33 | <xi_> | Arnia: i need to update it to support datatyped literals and such |
| 09:53:35 | <xi_> | Arnia: then i'll mentino it again |
| 09:53:47 | <Arnia> | ah cool :) |
| 09:53:59 | <xi_> | Arnia: my big problem is the huge chasm between teh XHTML 'theoretical' world and the browser 'real world' where innerHTML doesnt even match up with what you sent in |
| 09:54:39 | <Arnia> | Ouch |
| 09:55:26 | <m94mni> | xi_: to be fair though, half that patch is just testcases |
| 10:03:51 | <xi_> | yah. |
| 10:04:12 | <xi_> | id still like a firefox w/o all the crap. like all this sqlitey bookmark junk |
| 10:04:28 | <xi_> | opera keyword indexes every visited page now, google style |
| 10:04:34 | <xi_> | and returns results inline in the address bar |
| 10:04:59 | <xi_> | too bad it kills non GET/PUT/POST methods and it seems no way to bypass |
| 10:05:12 | <xi_> | what fun is REST if you have to tunnel an additional method selector inside POST.. |
| 11:46:53 | <chimezie> | xi_: re: whats so hard about realizing 'write the parser once - data infiitely extensible' - what's hard is that it requires overcoming microformat zealotry =) |
| 11:51:33 | <tommorris> | chimezie: practical examples on the way. |
| 11:52:32 | <tommorris> | Hopefully, sometime today I'll release some ten line Python scripts that show how simple RDF parsing can be. I'm bloody fed up with the "RDF tax" myth - that RDF is *so* complex that us *mere mortals* can't understand it. |
| 11:54:20 | <m94mni> | that's the spirit |
| 11:57:04 | <tommorris> | Sorry, just been arguing with a borderline troll about the Semweb |
| 11:57:17 | <tommorris> | He seems to think that the SemWeb was an idea conjured up a good two years after RDF. |
| 11:57:31 | <m94mni> | rather than in 1989 :-) |
| 11:57:51 | <tommorris> | Well, I pulled up timbl's WWW94 slides and posted a link. See what happens. |
| 11:58:09 | <tommorris> | He is also part of the RDF == XML camp |
| 11:58:43 | <tommorris> | Anyone know what the best practice is to represent an integer literal age is in a foaf profile? |
| 11:59:51 | <TedThibodeauJr> | convert and store it as dob with day=month=0 ? |
| 12:00:09 | <tommorris> | Hmm. XSLT. ;) |
| 12:00:25 | <tommorris> | foaf:age seems to have been pulled from the latest version of FOAF |
| 12:00:28 | <TedThibodeauJr> | (without guaranteed date-of-triple, integer age will guaranteed be incorrect/changed in a year...) |
| 12:01:01 | <tommorris> | Well, it's being pulled from an API, so the database should change it in line with their DOB |
| 12:01:15 | <tommorris> | Meaning it might be incorrect for 60 minutes while my cache updates. |
| 12:01:34 | <TedThibodeauJr> | oh, I see ... |
| 12:02:07 | <tommorris> | I'll just use foaf:age, despite it being deprecated in the latest foaf. |
| 12:02:45 | <TedThibodeauJr> | can't find why it was deprected? |
| 12:04:17 | <tommorris> | Probably for the quite reasonable reason you just provided. |
| 12:05:40 | <m94mni> | and no replacement giving date of birth? |
| 12:07:29 | <tommorris> | Yep, foaf:birthday |
| 12:07:54 | <tommorris> | But I can't infer yyyy-mm of birth from age, alas. |
| 12:08:30 | <tommorris> | http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-dev/2005-March/008054.html |
| 12:08:38 | <tommorris> | C|: Birthday Issue |
| 12:08:45 | <tommorris> | C:|Birthday Issue |
| 12:09:30 | <tommorris> | C: Mailing list post about the birthday issue in FOAF. |
| 12:09:55 | <TedThibodeauJr> | does foaf:birthday only have hasValue? or can it be set isGreaterThan/isLessThan ? (depending on data source, you could infer that...) |
| 12:10:05 | <TedThibodeauJr> | *thinks* *clicks* |
| 12:10:37 | <TedThibodeauJr> | also, if you're pulling age from an API, does that API also have a dob call? |
| 12:17:59 | <m94mni> | tommorris: http://vocab.org/bio/0.1/#sec-examples |
| 12:18:21 | <tommorris> | TebThibodeauJ: No, alas not. |
| 12:19:20 | <tommorris> | m94mni: Thanks. I'm just using foaf:age though |
| 12:19:55 | <m94mni> | it's certainly not good practice to use a deprecated property :-) |
| 12:20:12 | <TedThibodeauJr> | clearly the API is broken. ;-) |
| 12:22:21 | <TedThibodeauJr> | (especially because given a year, you could learn the birthDate exactly) |
| 12:24:17 | <TedThibodeauJr> | but now I must play in traffic ... |
| 12:30:38 | <facefaceface> | hello! |
| 12:43:46 | <tommorris> | Just for context, I'm working on mapping last.fm to RDF using XSLT. |
| 12:43:55 | <Arnia> | Dynamism? Who needs dynamism in a perfect shiny model-theoretic world? |
| 12:44:23 | <m94mni> | tommorris: nice |
| 12:45:01 | <m94mni> | tommorris: why don't you ask for advise on the FOAF list as well? |
| 12:45:38 | <tommorris> | I will when I come across problems that are more complex. |
| 12:45:59 | <m94mni> | they'd be interested in knowing about your project, I'm sure |
| 12:46:00 | <tommorris> | Song plays should be an interesting one. |
| 12:46:12 | <m94mni> | http://lists.foaf-project.org/mailman/listinfo/foaf-dev |
| 12:46:21 | <tommorris> | A bit o' luck and I'll have something up before this evening |
| 12:46:26 | <m94mni> | D:| FOAF mailing list |
| 13:31:53 | <tommorris> | See: http://rdf.opiumfield.com/lastfm/friends/tommorris and http://rdf.opiumfield.com/lastfm/profile/tommorris |
| 13:33:15 | <m94mni> | tommorris: nice |
| 13:35:07 | <tommorris> | When I get around to marking up the music, it'll follow the Linked Open Data principle and link through to MusicBrainz! |
| 13:36:18 | <Arnia> | tommorris: going to use MeNow? |
| 13:36:39 | <tommorris> | Hmm. Maybe. |
| 13:36:49 | <tommorris> | Just looking at the examples |
| 13:37:10 | <tommorris> | If I'd known about MeKnow a few months ago I'd have plotted Twitter to it. |
| 13:38:56 | <tommorris> | I'll update the Twitter script to support MeNow |
| 13:42:52 | <m94mni> | tommorris: have you seen http://openfriendformat.com/ |
| 13:43:15 | <tommorris> | Yes. Seems like a fancy way of saying "use FOAF" |
| 13:43:32 | <m94mni> | http://openfriendformat.com/foaf/ |
| 13:43:54 | <m94mni> | E:|OpenFriend FOAF generator |
| 13:44:53 | <m94mni> | (taken from discussions on FOAF list) |
| 13:45:06 | <m94mni> | example: http://openfriendformat.com/foaf/gen.php?account=chrisvr&avatars=true&network=all |
| 13:46:45 | <m94mni> | (it crashed on tommorris :-/) |
| 13:47:34 | <tommorris> | Probably the MySpace parser. |
| 13:48:03 | <tommorris> | Oh, oaky, it's doing it for last.fm |
| 13:48:16 | <tommorris> | Hmm. MySpace is identified as an rss:channel. |
| 13:48:58 | <m94mni> | it tries to do quite a few of them at a time, see the dropdown at http://openfriendformat.com/foaf/ |
| 13:51:06 | <m94mni> | tommorris: link to discussion http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-dev/2007-August/008656.html |
| 13:52:49 | <tommorris> | Oh, okay, that explains it (despite top-posting). ;) |
| 13:54:25 | <m94mni> | indeed |
| 14:50:39 | <rawles> | does anyone know about approaches to ontology merging? are there accepted good solutions, or is it something of a 'black art' |
| 14:52:06 | <dajobe> | the second one |
| 14:52:38 | <rawles> | so if i wanted to try to develop some strategy for it, where should i start looking? or is it just as good to try to define my own strategy? |
| 14:53:11 | <dajobe> | best review the literature first, ISWC would be a good start |
| 14:53:26 | <rawles> | i've been reading about SMART |
| 14:53:31 | <rawles> | but that's quite old now |
| 14:58:21 | <gromgull> | ontology merging is hopelessly domain dependent... take your own domain and hack something togehter |
| 14:58:32 | <gromgull> | assuming you just want a solution now... if you want to do some science I can't help you |
| 14:58:34 | <gromgull> | :) |
| 14:59:13 | <rawles> | yeah thats it, i just want a solution now... i'll do the domain dependant thing! |
| 15:00:57 | <Arnia> | Meh, ontology merging isn't something you can give a general solution to in a boolean semantics |
| 15:01:04 | <Arnia> | Not enough space |
| 15:01:49 | <rawles> | makes sense now you say it |
| 15:02:02 | <rawles> | this ontology stuff is all a bit cool and murky |
| 15:19:48 | <jimbojw> | rawles: i'm new to ontologies, but it would seem to me that merging them would be akin to merging say two XML files - you only know when to overwrite vs append values based on context |
| 18:08:18 | <danja> | isn't there any swig at this years TP? http://www.w3.org/2007/11/TPAC/ |
| 18:08:20 | <phenny> | danja: 22 Sep 12:44Z <sbp> tell danja heh, I don't think I'd seen the "and getting it wrong!" bit before |
| 19:24:22 | <DanC> | danja, I remember some discussion of whether SWIG would meet this year's TP. I don't recall the conclusion. |
| 19:24:24 | <phenny> | DanC: 15 Sep 17:54Z <sbp> tell DanC http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/ needs updating--shows the specs at Proposed Recommendation (unless I've got a stale mirror) |
| 19:24:58 | <DanC> | sbp, hhalpin just updated /sw/grddl-wg/ , I thought |
| 19:25:23 | <sbp> | yep. belay that order, &c. |
| 19:26:23 | <DanC> | hmmm... "and getting it wrong!" sounds familiar; is that quoting me? |
| 19:28:38 | <sbp> | well remembered. from a recent dannyayers.com post |
| 19:28:58 | <sbp> | (whose URI I would paste, but I seem to be having network woes) |
| 19:30:41 | <sbp> | ah, at last. http://dannyayers.com/2007/09/22/connollys-bane |
| 19:50:39 | <tommorris> | Note: I share DanC's pain at computers not making my life as easy as they should. |
| 19:51:04 | <sbp> | it's a universal pain, I'm sure |
| 19:51:35 | <tommorris> | That said, I find that now we have reasonably nice scripting languages (Python, Ruby etc.) a lot of that pain goes out the window. |
| 20:51:42 | <DanC> | @prefix foaf? |
| 20:51:46 | <DanC> | .g foaf namespace |
| 20:51:49 | <phenny> | DanC: http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/ |
| 20:57:58 | <MFen> | .g rdfs namespace |
| 20:58:01 | <phenny> | MFen: http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/tests/rdfs-namespace.out |
| 20:58:16 | <MFen> | @prefix rdfs? |
| 20:58:27 | <MFen> | hmm |
| 20:58:30 | <MFen> | well, THAT wasn't right |
| 20:58:36 | <MFen> | .g rdf namespace |
| 20:58:39 | <phenny> | MFen: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/ |
| 20:58:49 | <MFen> | that isn't right either. what the heck |
| 20:59:27 | <chimezie> | .nsBound rdf |
| 20:59:28 | <Emeka> | $rdf = http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns# |
| 21:04:37 | <tommorris> | http://tommorris.org/blog/2007/09/24#When:21:03:04 |
| 21:04:51 | <tommorris> | F:|Simple RDF Querying with Python (Tom Morris) |
| 21:05:41 | <tommorris> | F: How to query RDF using Python's RDFLib. Specifically oriented towards people writing small-scale mashups who get excited by the idea of creating stuff in less than ten lines. |
| 21:48:14 | <DanC> | very nice... http://www.semergence.com/2007/09/23/qotd-5/ |
| 22:03:03 | <drobilla> | anyone use fact++? particularly anyone who knows an easy way to make it do what it does not involving 900 other technologies... |
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