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These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.
| 00:26:20 | <drobilla> | hm.. can you express /anything/ in RDF? |
| 00:27:29 | <kpreid> | two kinds of "not really": |
| 00:27:48 | <kpreid> | 1. expressing, say, a megapixel image in RDF would be a bad idea |
| 00:28:08 | <drobilla> | I mean, theoretically speaking |
| 00:28:10 | <kpreid> | 2. arguably you can't express something if there is nothing that understands the vocabulary you're using. |
| 00:28:16 | <kpreid> | but that lends itself to extension |
| 00:28:30 | <drobilla> | if there's no known counter-example, probably yes |
| 00:28:49 | <kpreid> | I think it's much like turing-completeness in programming languages |
| 00:29:08 | <drobilla> | yeah. that I can prove, but I'm no logician. no idea how to go about proving this :) |
| 00:29:30 | <kpreid> | insofar as "ability to express" is meaningful, RDF can express anything; but some things are more or less practical |
| 00:31:53 | <drobilla> | right. as you said, megapixel images in rdf is probably a very stupid thing to do. but you /can/ |
| 00:32:17 | <drobilla> | I guess this is equivalent to asking "is all knowledge representable as relationships between entities" |
| 00:32:42 | <drobilla> | which might get philosophical quickly :) |
| 00:33:39 | <kpreid> | indeed |
| 00:34:32 | <kpreid> | what I'd watch out for is those situations where, in order to produce that form, the entities being referred to are not the entities of interest, but rather some meta-layer necessary to represent them in RDF |
| 00:35:17 | <kpreid> | for example, you can't write a >2-ary relation directly in RDF; you have to introduce a bnode to stand for the relationship and link each of the objects to it |
| 00:35:36 | <kpreid> | that's relatively harmless, but that's the sort of symptom I'm talking about |
| 00:43:13 | <drobilla> | yeah. far from the ideal model for everything |
| 01:34:19 | <Arnia> | kpreid: Interesting, that's entirely how the maths does it |
| 01:37:59 | <c> | Arnia: whats CBD? |
| 01:38:17 | <c> | "limited to the CBD of the item" |
| 01:38:26 | <c> | class by domain? |
| 01:38:29 | <c> | ACTION clueles |
| 01:42:07 | <kpreid> | c: per what Arnia's talked about before, |
| 01:42:10 | <kpreid> | .g "concise bounded description" |
| 01:42:13 | <phenny> | kpreid: http://www.w3.org/Submission/CBD/ |
| 01:42:32 | <kpreid> | Arnia: which, the bnode thing? |
| 01:42:59 | <c> | thanks, the acronym eluded me :) |
| 01:43:20 | <Arnia> | kpreid: yeah, it is essentially currying... which is a requirement for turing-completeness |
| 01:43:40 | <Arnia> | c: Sorry, I tend to use acronyms when I can't keep up with the typing |
| 01:44:29 | <Arnia> | kpreid: In fact, RDF is sort of like a fully curried topic map |
| 01:49:57 | <kpreid> | interesting |
| 01:52:14 | <Arnia> | Yes, and people say my category theory excursions are esoteric ;) |
| 02:51:08 | <CaptSolo> | hi all |
| 02:52:37 | <Arnia> | Hey CaptSolo |
| 02:54:56 | <CaptSolo> | hi Arnia |
| 02:54:59 | <CaptSolo> | what's new? |
| 02:57:02 | <Arnia> | writing an ontology documentation tool as a test of my RDF library |
| 02:59:09 | <Arnia> | Yourself? |
| 03:01:09 | <CaptSolo> | Arnia: what's the documentation tool doing? |
| 03:01:50 | <CaptSolo> | ACTION wonders how is that similar (or not) to what SpecGen4 is doing (it's used to generate SIOC documentation) |
| 03:03:01 | <CaptSolo> | Arnia: i am currently revising a paper written earlier |
| 03:03:32 | <CaptSolo> | should be sleeping now perhaps, but the day was not very productive so am catching up at night-time |
| 03:05:04 | <Arnia> | CaptSolo: Well it will take an RDF/XML file and produce an XHTML file documenting the ontology with embedded RDFa |
| 03:05:21 | <Arnia> | CaptSolo: at least that's the plan. There is a secret feature planned too |
| 03:05:32 | <CaptSolo> | aha! sounds nice |
| 03:05:53 | <CaptSolo> | my tool does the first part - generating XHTML file. |
| 03:05:57 | <CaptSolo> | no embedded RDFA |
| 03:06:25 | <CaptSolo> | (it's demand driven, so when someone needs e.g. RDFa that's when it's added) |
| 03:06:38 | <Arnia> | Going to use jQuery to add a nice browsing interface too |
| 03:07:05 | <CaptSolo> | if you can give me a link to an ontology I could show what it generates. if that's of any help. |
| 03:16:49 | <Arnia> | CaptSolo: Just pick any I think... it would be interesting to compare outputs once I've finished |
| 03:24:34 | <CaptSolo> | Arnia: let me know when you're finished then. :) |
| 03:25:25 | <CaptSolo> | as for picking any - you can just look at SIOC spec |
| 03:26:28 | <CaptSolo> | ACTION goes into master procrasator mode by launching an episode of Dr.Who |
| 03:26:36 | <CaptSolo> | procrastinator |
| 03:26:42 | <CaptSolo> | that's better :) |
| 03:27:41 | <Arnia> | heh. Yay for procrastination ;) |
| 03:28:03 | <timbl> | Top ten reasons for procrastination: |
| 03:28:03 | <timbl> | 1.) |
| 03:29:16 | <CaptSolo> | :D |
| 03:29:28 | <CaptSolo> | top 5, 10, ... list are popular these days |
| 03:30:31 | <dajobe> | #1 The Internet |
| 03:31:15 | <timbl> | ACTION gtg |
| 03:55:13 | <Arnia> | Wow, almost 5am already |
| 04:08:34 | <CaptSolo> | indeed :) |
| 04:08:44 | <CaptSolo> | we must be on the same tz |
| 04:14:30 | <Arnia> | Well, I'm in the UK and I presume you're in Ireland atm |
| 04:15:15 | <CaptSolo> | right. not that you'd tell that by asking time to my irc client :D |
| 04:15:47 | <CaptSolo> | isn't it a bit late / early now? |
| 04:19:34 | <Arnia> | I slept this evening... my body clock is always a little awry |
| 04:19:38 | <Arnia> | What about you? :) |
| 04:25:04 | <CaptSolo> | just had an unproductive day (should have stayed up last night but went to sleep instead hoping the morning will be ok) |
| 04:25:30 | <CaptSolo> | maybe it's change from summer to autumn that makes it that, dunno |
| 04:25:52 | <CaptSolo> | anyway, i am better at working in some far away tz :) |
| 04:25:58 | <Arnia> | Yeah... ach well. |
| 04:26:08 | <Arnia> | I'm just naturally nocturnal. Have been since I was a baby |
| 04:26:14 | <CaptSolo> | same here |
| 04:26:51 | <Arnia> | Without daily social contact in real life (such as when Durham is empty during the summer) I drift into a nocturnal pattern |
| 04:27:05 | <CaptSolo> | best time to work is at night. might not fit with others' schedules. |
| 04:27:32 | <CaptSolo> | social contact forces / brings you back to "normal"? |
| 04:28:17 | <CaptSolo> | heh, we're almost getting into philosophical questions (eg, what is normal) at half past 5 at night ;) |
| 04:30:06 | <Arnia> | CaptSolo: yes... part of the problem is how little I need to sleep a day. Five hours is my preferred sleep period |
| 04:30:15 | <Arnia> | CaptSolo: but I can do fine on four |
| 04:33:51 | <CaptSolo> | just 4 hours, continuously from day to day ? |
| 04:34:08 | <dajobe> | you could get a 2nd job |
| 04:34:55 | <Arnia> | CaptSolo: yeah... how do you think I'm able to have an active social life and do a PhD at the same time? ;) |
| 04:34:58 | <CaptSolo> | a friend once told me about an "uber-man" sleep schedule which consists of 0.5h naps throughtout the day and then one longer (2 hour?) period |
| 04:35:16 | <Arnia> | dajobe: be hell to figure out my tax though :) |
| 04:35:22 | <CaptSolo> | that might be quite rough though |
| 04:36:13 | <CaptSolo> | Arnia: let's have a drink to an active social life :) |
| 04:37:53 | <Arnia> | Yeah. I'm a 'work hard, play hard' sort of person. Can't stand to be cooped up for more than a few days. |
| 04:38:24 | <Arnia> | When I visited Galway, I made sure to have a look around and make sure there were plenty of pubs :) |
| 04:42:11 | <CaptSolo> | Galway's ok in terms of the number of pubs around here. |
| 04:43:18 | <CaptSolo> | semweb/foaf hackers had a chance to check them out during FOAF Galway (a long time ago) |
| 04:43:43 | <Arnia> | I did like the Quays |
| 04:53:35 | <CaptSolo> | ok, next time we should definitely meet up |
| 05:13:42 | <Arnia> | Indeed |
| 07:23:34 | <EtnaRosso> | morning all |
| 08:21:06 | <rawles> | morning - does anyone have any experience of editing a metaclass in Protege-OWL? I can't seem to work out how its done |
| 09:45:04 | <EtnaRosso> | morning |
| 09:45:35 | <EtnaRosso> | using OWL Consistency Checker at mindswap |
| 09:45:44 | <EtnaRosso> | i'm checking my ontology |
| 09:46:03 | <EtnaRosso> | i defined a new class <owl:Class rdf:ID="myClass" /> |
| 09:46:28 | <EtnaRosso> | but the check result says me |
| 09:46:38 | <EtnaRosso> | Untyped Class: Assuming myOnt:myClass is a class |
| 09:46:50 | <EtnaRosso> | class declaration is wrong? |
| 09:47:38 | <danja> | heh |
| 09:48:41 | <danja> | does that one give you a chunk of rdf/xml to insert for DL? sounds like it prefers it said in a different way |
| 09:51:06 | <EtnaRosso> | i put my rdf/xml into a form |
| 09:52:00 | <EtnaRosso> | wonderweb validator say me as additiona information |
| 09:52:08 | <EtnaRosso> | "Class(a:myClass partial)" |
| 09:52:28 | <danja> | one of the checker things gave suggestions for missing bits - maybe it was the Pellet demo? |
| 09:53:00 | <Arnia> | danja: word of the week: herft |
| 09:53:32 | <danja> | EntaRosso, is it seeing the xml:base ok? |
| 09:53:42 | <danja> | .g herft |
| 09:53:42 | <phenny> | danja: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Herft |
| 09:53:50 | <danja> | .ety herft |
| 09:53:51 | <phenny> | Can't find the etymology for "herft". Try http://etymonline.com/?search=herft |
| 09:54:01 | <Arnia> | .swhack herft |
| 09:54:41 | <sbp> | that only works on Swhack |
| 09:54:55 | <Arnia> | Oh well |
| 09:55:06 | <Arnia> | phenny: thanks phenny |
| 09:55:07 | <Arnia> | anyway |
| 09:55:21 | <phenny> | No problem. |
| 09:55:24 | <danja> | ACTION started using jbouncer to keep my nick alive - not got around to joining all the usual places (thanks Reto!) |
| 09:58:24 | <EtnaRosso> | danja> EntaRosso, is it seeing the xml:base ok? |
| 09:58:28 | <EtnaRosso> | i can't understand |
| 10:00:49 | <danja> | what URI is rdf:ID="myClass" |
| 10:02:31 | <rawles> | has anyone managed to edit multiple ontologies in Protege-OWL? Or is it just one session, one ontology |
| 10:03:01 | <EtnaRosso> | right danja |
| 10:03:09 | <EtnaRosso> | missing # in a property range |
| 10:03:12 | <EtnaRosso> | thanks! |
| 10:04:26 | <gromgull> | rawles: i think it's only one session per ontology |
| 10:04:28 | <gromgull> | eh |
| 10:04:31 | <gromgull> | vice versa |
| 10:04:39 | <gromgull> | you can import other projects into the current one |
| 10:04:51 | <gromgull> | although no circular imports are possible |
| 10:05:00 | <danja> | rawles, don't think I've tried editing, but the import kind-of worked for me, though it still seemed to balk at some of my non-owlish rdf |
| 10:05:02 | <rawles> | so if i wanted to develop two together i would need to save and open, save and open? |
| 10:05:11 | <rawles> | i really really love protege-owl |
| 10:06:01 | <rawles> | can we make a #protege channel please? |
| 10:08:09 | <rawles> | how do i set the internal name of an ontology? |
| 10:09:41 | <EtnaRosso> | seee xmlns |
| 10:19:58 | <bijan> | rawles, I strongly recommend, if you can, using protege4alpha. It's a ground up rewrite and it's really quite nice. Nice Swoop influence (if I do say myself that a Swoop influence is nice ;)). Doesn't have most plugins, so that's a bear. |
| 10:20:32 | <Arnia> | bijan: is it possible for me to refer to the RDF vocabulary in it? |
| 10:20:53 | <bijan> | You mean as data? |
| 10:20:57 | <Arnia> | I've been trying to get it to import the RDF namespace so that I can use rdf:Statement as a superclass |
| 10:20:59 | <rawles> | can it load prot 3.3 projects? |
| 10:21:09 | <rawles> | i need lots of plugins |
| 10:21:12 | <bijan> | Arnia, ewww |
| 10:21:25 | <bijan> | I wouldn't be surprised if not. |
| 10:21:31 | <bijan> | I might file a bug report if so :) |
| 10:22:09 | <bijan> | To work around that, why not define a "shadow vocabulary", i.e., us the same local names, but make up your own prefix for it |
| 10:22:20 | <Arnia> | heh... that should work |
| 10:22:30 | <Arnia> | I get to be evil in (relative) comfort |
| 10:22:31 | <bijan> | This makes your ontology more portable to reasoners and OWL DL oriented tools |
| 10:22:58 | <Arnia> | well... OWL DL reasoning isn't a... high priority with this |
| 10:23:00 | <bijan> | At the expense of loosing some syntactic facilities in the RDF/XML and not getting special treatement in the triplestore in things like Jena |
| 10:23:02 | <Arnia> | But yeah |
| 10:23:12 | <Arnia> | Hm |
| 10:23:22 | <Arnia> | Actually, no |
| 10:23:24 | <bijan> | That's really the trade off |
| 10:23:31 | <Arnia> | ACTION shakes his head to clear it |
| 10:26:00 | <bijan> | rawles, you are out of luck re: Prot4. Sorry |
| 10:26:00 | <bijan> | Might still be worth developing the owl bits there |
| 10:34:15 | <rawles> | ok thanks |
| 11:14:13 | <EtnaRosso> | i need informations about how to create and use a new type for a typed literal |
| 11:34:15 | <EtnaRosso> | i need to define as property range a closed continuos interval |
| 11:34:45 | <EtnaRosso> | (for example doubles in [0..1]) |
| 11:35:08 | <EtnaRosso> | i think the right way is to define a new datatype from double |
| 11:35:25 | <EtnaRosso> | i'm right? i don't know how to |
| 11:43:39 | <danja> | phenny, tell danbri seeAlso: http://www.the-ba.net/the-ba/Events/FestivalofScience/FestivalNews/_Socialnetworking.htm |
| 11:43:41 | <phenny> | danja: I'll pass that on when danbri is around. |
| 12:44:45 | <m94mni> | www.ala.org |
| 13:35:39 | <EtnaRosso> | i defined in owl a class with a cardinality constraint maxCardinality |
| 13:36:07 | <EtnaRosso> | then a new class, subclass of the previous one, with a constraint minCardinality |
| 13:36:27 | <EtnaRosso> | pellet owl validator recognize it as unsatisfiable concept |
| 13:36:33 | <EtnaRosso> | could be a bug? |
| 13:37:02 | <EtnaRosso> | note that maxCardinality and minCardinality has the same value and are about the same property |
| 14:16:48 | <bijan> | EtnaRosso, uhm...it's impossible to tell from your description |
| 14:17:15 | <bijan> | A larger fragment or a pointer to the ontology would be better |
| 14:17:58 | <bijan> | Or if you load it up in owlsight, it will provide an explantion of (in terms of minimum set of axioms sufficient to produce the) unsatisfiability |
| 14:19:06 | <EtnaRosso> | owlsight? |
| 14:19:55 | <bijan> | http://pellet.owldl.com/ontology-browser/ |
| 14:20:02 | <bijan> | A: |
| 14:20:15 | <bijan> | A:|OWLsight |
| 14:20:24 | <bijan> | A:A web based frontend to Pellet. |
| 14:20:36 | <bijan> | A:Will show explanations on demand. |
| 14:21:08 | <bijan> | A:Still in early stages; requires a recent browser with GWT happiness. Doesn't support individuals well, yet. |
| 14:21:14 | <bijan> | Enjoy :) |
| 14:33:13 | <EtnaRosso> | nice |
| 15:13:38 | <bijan> | EtnaRosso, did you figure out your issue? |
| 15:16:22 | <EtnaRosso> | no has been helpful to fix other bugs |
| 15:17:01 | <EtnaRosso> | see you |
| 15:31:35 | <leobard> | hi, is there an N3 validator? |
| 15:32:01 | <x98> | any sematnic media wiki people here? |
| 15:48:19 | <leobard> | when I get this at CWM with python 2.5, is it my fault? " from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the file" |
| 15:48:38 | <sbp> | nope, bug i' th' code |
| 15:48:52 | <sbp> | easy to fix: just repair what it says |
| 15:48:59 | <leobard> | weird, I downloaded the release. |
| 15:50:37 | <chimezie> | is there a way to get the latest version of CWM w/out getting the entire swap directory from CVS? |
| 15:50:53 | <chimezie> | ACTION would love to bookmark a page with such instructions |
| 15:51:12 | <sbp> | if the filenames haven't changed, you could wget the same structure as is in the released bundle |
| 15:51:23 | <sbp> | if there's no construction for the released bundle, too |
| 15:51:30 | <chimezie> | ugh. |
| 15:51:44 | <sbp> | fine, have fun CVSing! :-) |
| 15:52:24 | <sbp> | the CVS rock vs. the wget hard place |
| 15:53:49 | <chimezie> | the download all of swap via CVS is a non-starter for me, that's why I was asking |
| 15:54:02 | <chimezie> | i'll try wget |
| 16:00:19 | <Arnia> | I'm beginning to get head-spin... a meta-ontology :/ |
| 16:25:35 | <leobard> | next problem with cwm: does it have an argument to store the results into a file? |
| 16:27:13 | <leobard> | ok, seems I have to pipe. ok. |
| 17:45:07 | <timbl> | leobard, from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the fil |
| 17:45:12 | <timbl> | e |
| 18:12:27 | <ericP> | anyoen seen danbri lately? |
| 18:12:41 | <ericP> | he owes me a posn paper toute de friggin' suite |
| 18:21:45 | <timbl> | Funny, on dbpedia there is a nice data file http://dbpedia.org/data/John_Seely_Brown |
| 18:28:31 | <timbl> | so why does http://dbpedia.org/resource/John_Seely_Brown redirect to http://dbpedia.openlinksw.com:8890/sparql?default-graph-uri=http%3A%2F%2Fdbpedia.org&query=DESCRIBE+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fdbpedia.org%2Fresource%2FJohn_Seely_Brown%3E |
| 18:29:35 | <timbl> | which is more of a mouthful an has Content-Length: 3338 |
| 18:30:44 | <timbl> | hmmm the sparlw on is in rdf/xml triples |
| 18:31:58 | <timbl> | Same graphs. |
| 18:32:19 | <timbl> | The /data/' file ahs been reserialized .. baked maybe |
| 18:34:44 | <timbl> | Not same graphs. also 2 triples in data, saying... <http://dbpedia.org/data/John_Seely_Brown> :label "RDF description of John Seely Brown"; |
| 18:34:45 | <timbl> | <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/primaryTopic> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/John_Seely_Brown> . |
| 18:37:13 | <Arnia> | Oh, they separate uses and mentions then |
| 18:38:16 | <timbl> | Why not just 303 to the /data/ ? |
| 18:39:14 | <Arnia> | Could it be something to do with the way they have the proxying arrangement set up? |
| 18:39:52 | <sbp> | logger: pointer? |
| 18:39:53 | <logger> | See http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2007-09-14#T18-39-53 |
| 18:40:58 | <sbp> | .email dbpedia-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net 303 See Other for /resource/ URIs? // How about responding 303 See Other from, e.g. http://dbpedia.org/resource/John_Seely_Brown to http://dbpedia.org/data/John_Seely_Brown? See http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2007-09-14#T18-39-53 for context. Thanks. |
| 18:41:01 | <phenny> | sbp: Sent (459 bytes). |
| 18:41:11 | <sbp> | there. hopefully it allows posts from non-subscribers |
| 18:54:08 | <chimezie> | ahh the joys of phenny-foo |
| 18:54:54 | <sbp> | I just added calendaring, too, but it only works in The Other Place |
| 18:56:28 | <chimezie> | i still need to port Emeka to the latest module-based framework - so much cleaner |
| 18:56:46 | <sbp> | yeah, it's very handy... |
| 19:20:15 | <timbl> | thanks spb. |
| 19:29:36 | <sbp> | yw |
| 19:38:36 | <yard> | anyone figured out why swig.xmlhack chumps are invisible in Firefox3, Dillo, and WebKitQT? the only time ive ever seen them is loading up firefox2 for release-testing. perhaps this is the infamous 'dont serve xhtml as text/html' problem that Ian Hickson likes to warn about? dillo doesnt even support CSS and theyre invisible |
| 19:40:12 | <timbl> | Ar ethe really not there or just right at the bottom of the lomng page? |
| 19:40:50 | <timbl> | ACTION sighs. .. did some foaf crawling stuff somewhere but don't know where he put it. |
| 19:45:26 | <yard> | yeah div#main isnt even showing up in the DOM inspector. must be a parsing issue |
| 19:45:44 | <yard> | actually it is in webkitQt. just not dillo or trunk firefox (the 2 browsers i use) |
| 19:46:06 | <yard> | anyways theres a better solution - read the RDF version :D... |
| 19:46:57 | <yard> | ACTION wondering about schema for documenting code |
| 19:47:45 | <yard> | methodName, methodFunction, sourceCode, etc |
| 19:48:21 | <yard> | hmm, maybe DC/EARL is enough |
| 19:53:05 | <kidehen> | timbl: http://dbpedia.org/resource/John_Seely_Brown should 303 to http://dbpedia.org/data/John_Seely_Brown |
| 19:53:32 | <sbp> | .head http://dbpedia.org/resource/John_Seely_Brown |
| 19:53:35 | <phenny> | Status: 303 (for more, try ".head uri header") |
| 19:53:36 | <sbp> | .head http://dbpedia.org/resource/John_Seely_Brown Location |
| 19:53:39 | <phenny> | Location: http://dbpedia.org/page/John_Seely_Brown |
| 19:53:47 | <sbp> | /page/? |
| 19:54:10 | <kidehen> | sbp: this is a bug in the proxy setup for sure. It never used to to to /page re. rdf |
| 19:54:25 | <timbl> | You have to ask for RDF |
| 19:54:33 | <sbp> | aha |
| 19:54:35 | <timbl> | $ curl -I -H 'accept: application/rdf+xml' http://dbpedia.org/resource/John_Seely_Brown |
| 19:54:35 | <timbl> | HTTP/1.1 303 See Other |
| 19:54:35 | <timbl> | Location: http://dbpedia.openlinksw.com:8890/sparql?default-graph-uri=http%3A%2F%2Fdbpedia.org&query=DESCRIBE+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fdbpedia.org%2Fresource%2FJohn_Seely_Brown%3E |
| 19:54:59 | <timbl> | kidehen, is the /data/ file baked? |
| 19:55:10 | <timbl> | (or is it a proxy to the sparql?) |
| 19:55:47 | <kidehen> | timbl: in both cases (before i.e. /data) and what appears to be the case now, it's based on 303 proxy services from (pubby or virtuoso) |
| 19:56:12 | <kidehen> | timbl: something appears to be going on as the 303 to the actual sparql endpoint is a new development |
| 19:56:32 | <kidehen> | timbl: i.e. appears to be happening as we type or something :-) |
| 19:56:33 | <timbl> | I thought it was always like that, and 'data/ was a new development! |
| 19:56:54 | <kidehen> | timbl: pubby always routed to /data |
| 19:57:21 | <timbl> | I prefer the 303 t the dat file, it just leaves a better URI for people to bookmark if they want. |
| 19:57:22 | <yard> | dajobe: the <script /> tags break dillo and firefox3. needs to be <script></script> for whatever reason |
| 19:57:30 | <yard> | dajobe: in swig.xmlhack |
| 19:57:38 | <kidehen> | timbl: anyway, this is all happening outside our domain (i.e. in Germany) |
| 19:57:40 | <yard> | dajobe: everything past that script tag doesnt make it into the DOM |
| 19:58:31 | <kidehen> | timbl: we are setting up another server so that we can demonstrate # URIs as part of the current discussion re. DBpedia URIs |
| 19:58:49 | <timbl> | That will be interesting. |
| 19:59:23 | <kidehen> | timbl: so there will be another server in parallel so that we can work our way towards what works best for everyone |
| 19:59:43 | <kidehen> | timbl: two live servers will enable the pros and cons to be evaluated by all interested parties |
| 19:59:48 | <timbl> | Currently, we are having a real problem with the 303s in Ffox. Firefix insists on alwats making sure the URI bar address what is on the screen, and it insists on folloiwng redirections. |
| 20:00:08 | <kidehen> | timbl: personally, I prefer # URIs :-) |
| 20:00:18 | <timbl> | so something like /data/John_Seely_Brown#this ? |
| 20:00:24 | <kidehen> | timbl: yep! |
| 20:01:29 | <dajobe> | yard: ? |
| 20:02:25 | <timbl> | That will be interesting. It will work very nicely with the tabulator. |
| 20:02:59 | <timbl> | Coul change the default label generator so that if it find #this is uses the bit before as a label, not the 'this'. |
| 20:03:07 | <yard> | dajobe: apparently, serving xhtml as text/html is part of the problem. since it ignores the /s at the end of tags. then barfs when script doesnt have a closing tag |
| 20:03:27 | <yard> | dajobe: at least anne van kesterns blog says that |
| 20:06:00 | <dajobe> | ok, I added a space inside so xslt won't generate the empty form tag |
| 20:06:05 | <dajobe> | maybe I should just switch the miem type |
| 20:08:01 | <c> | cool, fixed :) |
| 20:10:53 | <c> | changing MIME might introduce more probs. i cant read Shelley Power's site cuz of some parser error.. |
| 20:10:53 | <dajobe> | ok, swig.x.c is now application/xhtml+xml mime type |
| 20:10:56 | <dajobe> | good luck browser |
| 20:11:06 | <dajobe> | heh, out of sync irc |
| 20:11:32 | <dajobe> | there should be no parser errors, it's generated from valid xml |
| 20:11:46 | <c> | yep, it still works in ff3, |
| 20:11:52 | <c> | but now Dillo tries saving swig.xmlhack to disk |
| 20:11:56 | <dajobe> | I meant more about ie |
| 20:11:57 | <c> | ah well. dillo is only for emergengies |
| 20:12:00 | <dajobe> | well dillo is just dumb |
| 20:12:22 | <dajobe> | I don't use IE\d but some people do, does it handle xhtml mime types or not |
| 20:14:51 | <dajobe> | ok, lynx doesn't handle it either, I'm reverting |
| 20:14:59 | <dajobe> | at least until I do some kind of Accept: checking |
| 20:15:13 | <kidehen> | timbl: another option I am considering is adding the ability to produce "xyz.rdf" for SPARQL protocol URLs as part of the Linked Data Deployment features of Virtuoso. This is functionality we always had re. exposing anything in Virtuoso as a WebDAV resource |
| 20:15:44 | <c> | wikipedia IE page says it treates xhtml+xml as 'file for download' as well |
| 20:15:50 | <c> | maybe fixed in v7? |
| 20:16:39 | <kidehen> | timbl: so you have a traditional web information resource url returned in "Location: .." |
| 20:16:51 | <kidehen> | timbl: for "xyz.rdf" |
| 20:17:47 | <timbl> | WebDAV? |
| 20:17:50 | <kidehen> | timbl: I think this option is mandatory for reducing the activation threshold of linked data deployment as currently espoused across the LOD community |
| 20:17:54 | <kidehen> | timbl: yes |
| 20:18:31 | <timbl> | How does webDav fit in ... not webdav properties.... webdav authoring? |
| 20:19:33 | <c> | dajobe: with CSS float:left on #main and float:right on #sidebar, could eliminate need to scroll past 3 pages of links in non CSS browser |
| 20:19:45 | <c> | dajobe: since presumably you want the new stuff on top, insteazd of bottom |
| 20:20:33 | <kidehen> | timbl: we use WebDAV to expose resources to HTTP, so in this context I mean: to the UA its an HTTP server interaction, but inside Virtuoso we are creating a handle via the WebDAV functionality realm. Of course this same resource is accessible via WebDAV too in the normal sense. And the WebDAV resource properties also synced with the RDF Store (again, all of this happens inside Virtuoso) |
| 20:22:14 | <kidehen> | timbl: so Virtuoso will look like Apache re. the resource interaction, but go beyond Apache in the sense that it's producing the resource handles on the fly based on SPARQL protocol URLs. The user simply tells Virtuoso how he/she wants to name the resource etc.. |
| 20:22:16 | <dajobe> | c: i've changed the css, does that help? |
| 20:22:42 | <c> | dajobe: well, #main would have to be above #sidebar, in the XML as well.. |
| 20:23:06 | <c> | dajobe: siblings of the same parent element, i mean, but order reversed |
| 20:23:14 | <dajobe> | try now |
| 20:23:21 | <c> | awesome |
| 20:23:26 | <c> | in lynx.. |
| 20:23:37 | <c> | ty |
| 20:24:39 | <c> | its pushing the sidebar down though. clear:none missing somewhere (or more likely something set to display:block) |
| 20:24:43 | <kidehen> | timbl: re. authoring, you wouldn't be able to edit said resource unless we have a setting that tells Virtuoso to persist the resource rather that generate on the fly. This is an option that I will have the guys add to this feature |
| 20:24:44 | <c> | i should tweak the css and send you a patch |
| 20:25:25 | <kidehen> | timbl: but said resource will be out of sync with the original as it is now a completely separate thing :-) |
| 20:25:48 | <dajobe> | hmm, that looks bad on safari |
| 20:26:12 | <dajobe> | when it's too narrow |
| 20:26:42 | <c> | yep, floats are supposed to coexist in the same horizontal space. so theres something clearing it |
| 20:27:19 | <dajobe> | ACTION mtg |
| 20:40:15 | <c> | dajobe: the sidebar is appearing _inside_ the last item element, perhaps this is <a name=''/>s not being closed or something.. |
| 20:41:41 | <carmen> | ACTION wonders if FF parser can run in 'debug mode' with verbose |
| 20:43:31 | <carmen> | dajobe: not to mention the 2nd item element is now child lf the first item el, etc :/ |
| 20:57:33 | <carmen> | dajobe: <div class="comments"/> causes that extra nesting, which i guess doesnt happen if you serve as xhtml+xml, but then IE/lynx choke so... pick your poison? |
| 20:58:00 | <carmen> | dajobe: final note, i think you wanted <A id='linkid234234'/><a href=http://chumpedlink>name</a> to actually be one element? |
| 21:01:57 | <carmen> | at least links are visible now - major improvement |
| 21:25:00 | <dajobe> | can you send this by email, I'm busy |
| 21:42:49 | <carmen> | dajobe: so in summary - not outputting div.contents when theyre empty, and setting an explicit max-width on div.content is looking like the best solution, since the other option (moving content below sidebar) is awful in lynx/non-css and wrapping both main and content in a styling div is weak |
| 21:43:22 | <carmen> | maybe like max-width:75% or smth.. |
| 22:59:04 | <Arnia> | Right, completed the first draft of my non-axiomatic logic ontology |
| 22:59:22 | <Arnia> | yvesr: let me know if you want to take a look |
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