Experimental IRC log sioc-2007-09-30

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These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.

10:47:11<Wikier>hi
10:48:10<tuukkah>hi
10:52:39<Wikier>hi tuukkah
10:53:22<tuukkah>Wikier, are you currently working on something that uses sioc?
10:54:36<Wikier>now exactly not
10:54:49<Wikier>but SIOC envolves everything
10:54:59<Wikier>tuukkah: you are from finland?
10:55:11<tuukkah>yes
10:57:24<Wikier>I friend will go to work on Finland next month
10:57:35<Wikier>on october begins in Nokia
10:57:52<tuukkah>i guess you're from asturias
10:58:04<Wikier>yes
10:58:11<Wikier>do you know asturias?
10:58:27<tuukkah>i've heard about it from people i met
10:58:44<Wikier>who?
10:58:54<tuukkah>do you remember which city your friend is moving to in finland?
10:59:30<Wikier>Helsinki
10:59:36<tuukkah>miriam (ruiz, i think) develops debian
10:59:45<Wikier>probably I'll make a visit on next year
10:59:54<Wikier>woo, do you know Miriam?
11:00:14<Wikier>yes, it's member of our LUG (linux local user group)
11:00:24<Wikier>she comes here this week
11:00:42<Wikier>because she returns to spain to work
11:00:46<tuukkah>i met her when i was visiting madrid
11:01:14<tuukkah>world is small :-)
11:01:16<Wikier>your a DD too?
11:01:19<Wikier>sorry
11:01:30<tuukkah>i'd like to become one
11:01:33<Wikier>you're a DD too?
11:01:40<Wikier>great
11:01:58<Wikier>Debian it's a interesting project
11:02:06<tuukkah>indeed
11:02:11<Wikier>tuukkah: my frind goes to work on Desktop team in Nokia
11:02:22<Wikier>GNOME, Maemo, etc
11:02:42<Wikier>a Nokia was very interesting on semantic web on his intervieu
11:02:45<tuukkah>that's cool
11:03:49<Wikier>(he worked with us at CTIC on semantic web research area)
11:03:59<Wikier>I don't hve more details :-/
11:04:14<tuukkah>it might be secret :-/
11:04:14<Wikier>but it's interesting that Nokia uses SW
11:04:19<Wikier>probably
11:04:29<Wikier>he doesn't know details
11:05:02<tuukkah>ora lassila is a prominent sw researcher at nokia
11:05:21<Wikier>I don't know him
11:05:58<tuukkah>i have just seen some of his publications
11:10:03<Wikier>he's in USA
11:10:56<Wikier>context, rules, etc... interesting
11:11:39<tuukkah>but, i don't know if nokia has deployed any sw technologies yet
11:15:22<Wikier>I don't know
11:16:08<Wikier>but it serves a semantic web representation of its catalog
11:16:08<Wikier>http://sw.nokia.com/
11:17:56<Wikier>tuukkah: how Semantic Window Compositing works?
11:17:57<tuukkah>that's already something, and who knows, they might be using the catalog a lot already
11:18:57<tuukkah>Wikier, programs publish metadata about their windows, and the compositing window manager has views that employ that data
11:19:46<Wikier>and how i uses?
11:19:53<Wikier>and how it uses?
11:20:12<tuukkah>well, the possibilities are endless :-)
11:20:49<tuukkah>what i have this far is a focus+context navigation of related documents
11:21:36<tuukkah>it's intended as a replacement for the inherently limited tabbed browsing
11:21:46<Wikier>interesting
11:24:54<Wikier>well, we'll talk another day
11:25:03<Wikier>that I've to go away
11:25:05<Wikier>cu
11:25:16<tuukkah>give my best wishes to miriam when you see her!
11:25:21<tuukkah>see you!
12:54:09<terraces>hi all
12:58:08<tuukkah>hi terraces
13:24:03<tuukkah>http://sioc-project.org/publications would seem to be in need of an update
14:02:08<terraces>indeed, there's certainly more recent papers dealing with sioc
14:14:05<tuukkah>"for a more up-to-date list, please see http://www.google.com/scholar?q=semantic+sioc" ;-)
14:17:29<tuukkah>or where are the semantically interlinked online publications
17:59:44<Wikier>hi
18:01:15<tuukkah>hi Wikier
18:06:38<Wikier>hi tuukkah
18:06:59<Wikier>when I was away, you commented that SIOC publications is out of date
18:07:18<Wikier>I add one more paper now
18:07:19<Wikier>http://sioc-project.org/publications
18:07:23<Wikier>anything more?
18:08:01<Wikier>perhaps a footnotelinking to google scholar search
18:08:07<Wikier>perhaps a footnote linking to google scholar search
18:08:13<tuukkah>i read two papers on sioc explorer
18:09:29<tuukkah>Wikier, which one did you add?
18:11:26<Wikier>blogtalk
18:11:41<Wikier>about SIOC browser, on 2006
18:12:04<tuukkah>right, i wanted to suggest that as a third paper missing but then i saw it wasn't missing :-)
18:13:48<tuukkah>now i remember i wanted to ask you about buxon and swaml, how are they ?-)
18:14:00<Wikier>umm
18:14:03<Wikier>frozen
18:14:10<Wikier>we have more ideas
18:14:18<Wikier>some of then already implemented
18:14:36<Wikier>but I need time to publish a new stable version
18:14:55<Wikier>for example, now SWAML has support to XHTML+RDFa+GRDDL
18:14:58<tuukkah>can i see the parts already implemented in svn?
18:16:16<Wikier>of course
18:16:29<tuukkah>great :-)
18:16:32<Wikier>and demos
18:16:33<Wikier>http://swaml.berlios.de/demos/
18:16:44<Wikier>sioc-dev is exported with v0.0.5
18:16:54<Wikier>but swaml-devel is exported with svn version
18:17:45<tuukkah>yeah, i can see the xhtml with nice triples :-)
18:17:58<Wikier>:-)
18:18:28<tuukkah>so what did you actually mean by frozen if there are new features and plans for more :-)
18:18:50<Wikier>yes
18:19:16<Wikier>now we don't have time to work on swaml
18:19:33<Wikier>but it's an important project for us
18:19:39<tuukkah>i see
18:19:59<tuukkah>buxon too?
18:24:37<tuukkah>i'm asking because i am planning something similar
18:25:11<Wikier>buxon, good question
18:25:23<Wikier>buxion initially was only a prototype
18:25:31<Wikier>but also a good idea
18:25:41<Wikier>then I need some time to refactor all code
18:25:52<Wikier>but buxon continues too, yes
18:26:34<tuukkah>my current plan is here: http://live.gnome.org/Straw/DiscussionTracker
18:28:27<tuukkah>basically i'm trying to see where feed readers like straw *should* be going in the future
18:28:59<Wikier>interesting
18:29:24<Wikier>ambitious
18:29:29<Wikier>but interesting
18:30:28<tuukkah>perhaps not too ambitious if many people like the idea and collaborate
18:31:29<Wikier>semantic desktop is an idea that are in my mind from few years
18:32:00<Wikier>tuukkah: perhaps I could help you :-)
18:32:47<tuukkah>indeed :-)
18:35:34<tuukkah>and with swaml, you already have :-)
18:36:23<tuukkah>like i mention, swaml should be used to give straw an mbox-backend
18:38:16<Wikier>yes, I watching your diagram
18:38:27<Wikier>and swaml could be a backend, yes
18:38:55<tuukkah>there are many mailing lists with public mbox, right? if we could poll those for changes and download partial content, there would be a good way to read mailing lists without subscribing
18:41:20<Wikier>on theses days we are working to recover mboxes of debian and gnome
18:41:46<tuukkah>i'm looking at debian bts right now :-)
18:41:55<Wikier>when I have more details, I'll tell you
18:44:17<tuukkah>cool
18:46:18<tuukkah>and then buxon, perhaps it can be used as a frontend in the architecture
18:47:06<tuukkah>i don't see what would be the right way to divide sioc ui functionality into separate frontends though
18:51:15<tuukkah>like, one for reading news, one for replying in discussions, one for im?
18:52:14<CaptSolo>hi all
18:52:18<tuukkah>hi CaptSolo
18:52:31<CaptSolo>heheee, Wikier's online too
18:52:34<CaptSolo>hi tuukkah
18:53:32<CaptSolo>tuukkah: Benjamin mailed me he came to #sioc but probably did not stay long enough to hear from you what problems you had w. SIOC Explorer
18:53:53<CaptSolo>could you contact him in email (cc: to me) at benjamin.heitmann (at) deri.org ?
18:54:07<CaptSolo>and write about the problem
18:54:12<tuukkah>CaptSolo, yes, i was two hours late
18:54:34<tuukkah>sure, i wanted to ask you about the email addr :-)
18:54:43<Wikier>hi CaptSolo
18:55:07<CaptSolo>tuukkah: ok, now you have it :)
18:55:13<CaptSolo>Wikier: how're things?
18:55:15<Wikier>tuukkah: in which language is written straw?
18:55:19<tuukkah>CaptSolo, thanks :-)
18:55:24<tuukkah>Wikier, python
18:55:29<Wikier>CaptSolo: it was a good weekend
18:55:37<Wikier>buf tomorrow is monday :-/
18:55:43<CaptSolo>you and colleagues did a great job getting SIOC W3C submission in a better shape
18:56:01<CaptSolo>Wikier: that's great - re. weekend. monday sucks, that's true too
18:56:03<Wikier>CaptSolo: but if you talk with John, tomorrow I will send him an important mail
18:56:13<Wikier>tuukkah: great! I love python
18:56:33<CaptSolo>Wikier: great, will tell him.
18:56:39<Wikier>about my intership
18:56:47<CaptSolo>would you be coming to Galway for an internship?
18:56:55<CaptSolo>that'd be great
18:57:02<CaptSolo>John mentioned a possiblity
18:57:20<CaptSolo>ACTION likes Python too
18:57:38<tuukkah>CaptSolo, more than haskell ;-)
18:57:50<Wikier>CaptSolo: I would like to go Galwat, yes
18:57:59<Wikier>but we've to discuss the way
18:58:24<Wikier>tomorrow I'll write John about details
18:58:32<CaptSolo>ACTION scrolling back
18:58:39<CaptSolo>17:03 < tuukkah> then i was thinking aloud that we might want to tag forums without threading as such
18:58:42<CaptSolo>17:05 < tuukkah> that is, it's semantically relevent to the reply structure of the posts whether you typically reply to a post explicitly or just add your post to the end
18:58:45<CaptSolo>17:06 < tuukkah> mailing lists are of the explicit kind, blog comments and irc are of the implicit kind
18:59:02<CaptSolo>Wikier: hope that goes well.
18:59:25<CaptSolo>that goes for all members of the SIOC community - if you wish to come for an internship to DERI, I suppose there's a way
18:59:36<CaptSolo>Wikier's first ;-)
18:59:55<Wikier>CaptSolo: thx!
19:00:30<CaptSolo>tuukkah: re. your earlier text - yes, some systems have explicit threading information, while some do not
19:00:47<CaptSolo>there are some blogs that do comment threading, but those are a minority
19:00:49<Wikier>it would be interesting to learn with you and John
19:00:56<Wikier>tuukkah: http://sioc-project.org/publications <-- updated
19:01:01<CaptSolo>mailing lists do have it (in most cases if not all)
19:01:22<tuukkah>CaptSolo, so you see my concern that we should make this distinction expressable in sioc?
19:01:25<CaptSolo>Wikier: same here - 'd be cool & interesting to work together
19:01:52<CaptSolo>tuukkah: so - how do we model each of these cases?
19:02:11<CaptSolo>do you want to describe here, and then put an example on a wiki?
19:03:12<CaptSolo>Wikier: good to see more publications
19:03:29<CaptSolo>there's also a wiki page for collecting pointers to [online] publications / blog entries about SIOC
19:03:31<tuukkah>CaptSolo, i don't know what would be the best way to implement this. is multiple-inheritance a bad idea? would we just have a boolean property for Forum?
19:03:39<Wikier>CaptSolo: and more... http://www.google.com/scholar?q=semantic+sioc
19:03:42<Wikier>:-)
19:04:23<CaptSolo>tuukkah: what would this boolean property express?
19:04:45<CaptSolo>http://wiki.sioc-project.org/w/SIOC_In_Press
19:05:06<tuukkah>CaptSolo, whether the Posts in the Forum are implicitly threaded or not
19:05:20<tuukkah>Wikier, thanks for the update
19:05:31<CaptSolo>Wikier: there's difference though - for a person to actively search for "semantic sioc" he has to have enough motivation already. but a summary page [on SIOC site] can be something people stumble upon
19:05:43<CaptSolo>or something we can point to in a presentation
19:05:48<CaptSolo>both have their uses
19:05:59<Wikier>well, I go to have dinner
19:06:00<Wikier>cu
19:06:02<CaptSolo>tuukkah: have you got any publications to add tothe list too?
19:06:19<CaptSolo>Wikier: have a nice dinner!
19:07:13<tuukkah>Wikier, cu!
19:07:23<CaptSolo>tuukkah: hmmm, would it not be better to just express one or the other implicitly, via relations (or lack of them) b/w the comments?
19:07:29<tuukkah>CaptSolo, i might add your latest paper on semantic sioc explorer =)
19:07:49<CaptSolo>tuukkah: hehe :) true, need to add that. if you wish, go ahead and add it :D
19:08:06<CaptSolo>though you know i was asking about papers from your team, don't you? ;)
19:08:37<CaptSolo>tuukkah: re. this property - write to SIOC-Dev proposing the property and see where the discussion leads
19:08:42<tuukkah>i know, but we don't have papers
19:08:47<CaptSolo>would be interesting to discuss and see what people things
19:08:49<CaptSolo>thinks
19:08:52<CaptSolo>think
19:09:33<CaptSolo>one exercise for the mind: to think how we 'd express these both situations w. existing properties / classes
19:10:36<CaptSolo>tuukkah: btw, if adding a property to a forum, then it won't affect the comments for posts
19:10:50<CaptSolo>as those are not part of a forum
19:11:52<CaptSolo>Wikier: did you add the link to google scholar ?q=semantic+sioc ?
19:11:59<CaptSolo>a great idead
19:13:06<tuukkah>i don't remember all the properties we have, but the simple lack of explicit replies doesn't mean there can't be any. and even if there are some explicit replies doesn't mean there isn't also some implied reply structure
19:13:11<CaptSolo>---
19:13:31<CaptSolo>tuukkah: when you mentioned debian on #sioc earlier on, i remebered i have a Nokia N770
19:13:35<CaptSolo>which runs Debian
19:13:58<CaptSolo>and also that there's an idea to form a LUG Galway
19:14:35<CaptSolo>though not sure if we can run Wikier's software on a N770.
19:14:40<tuukkah>do you like the tablet?
19:15:05<CaptSolo>Wikier: what's the name of your friend who is going to work in Finland now?
19:15:21<CaptSolo>oh, i see you mentioned Maemo too :)
19:15:52<CaptSolo>tuukkah: i like it. screen is brilliant, something i've been waiting to appear for a long time
19:16:05<CaptSolo>it's CPU, RAM and flash amount sucks bigtime though
19:16:34<CaptSolo>too little memory, too slow CPU. and not sure N800 is that much further ahead in this regard.
19:16:39<CaptSolo>do you use it too?
19:17:06<tuukkah>i'm playing with the openmoko phone currently
19:17:35<tuukkah>it's a pity the screen is only half the size of the nokia tablet
19:18:19<tuukkah>plus they don't use real debian but a system adapted from it for embedded devices
19:19:26<CaptSolo>Wikier: Ora Lassila is at Nokia, isn't he? and Patrick Stickler too, i think.
19:20:10<CaptSolo>tuukkah: how does it compary to Nokia tech-spec-wise?
19:20:49<CaptSolo>tuukkah: you said you don't have any papers. SIOC-related at least. are you not encouraged to write papers at the university?
19:21:30<tuukkah>CaptSolo, yes we looked at ora lassila but were wondering if they actually have any products that use rdf
19:21:52<CaptSolo>he has some applications written
19:22:01<CaptSolo>but i don't know if they are used commercially
19:22:08<tuukkah>CaptSolo, n800 vs. neo1973 isn't a straight-forward comparison. an important part is the latter is a *phone* :-)
19:22:09<CaptSolo>if they are, is it public knowledge
19:22:36<CaptSolo>tuukkah: i am not excited by phone+pda combos. though Neo is mainly a phone, isn't it?
19:22:55<CaptSolo>ACTION likes the power to upgrade phone and PDA independently of each other.
19:23:08<CaptSolo>and use BT to connect 'em together
19:23:24<tuukkah>yeah, a it's mainly a phone, at it's got some serious bluetooth powers :-)
19:23:32<CaptSolo>tuukkah: i know that people in DERI's E-learning cluster are playing with things like Neo
19:23:46<CaptSolo>and WinME PDA phones
19:23:57<CaptSolo>and many more gadgets
19:24:34<CaptSolo>re. tools by Ora Lassila / Nokia - http://wilbur-rdf.sourceforge.net/
19:24:38<tuukkah>i'm becoming a gadget freak since the appearance of linux mobile gadgets :-)
19:25:22<CaptSolo>what gangets are you hacking at?
19:25:32<CaptSolo>i really like N770, though have not hacked it much
19:25:43<CaptSolo>Linksys wifi router is also nice
19:26:06<tuukkah>well, only the openmoko at the moment, then i have a wrt54gs since long
19:26:17<CaptSolo>tuukkah: re. comparing - you cna still compare how much RAM, CPU and flash they have
19:26:39<tuukkah>i hope i manage to get an xo laptop in november when it's possible to buy one
19:26:46<CaptSolo>just add a 'v' for "is a phone" column in comparision for Neo
19:26:54<CaptSolo>xo laptop?
19:27:07<tuukkah>the "$100" one
19:27:44<tuukkah>with special "works for children in developing countries too" powers
19:29:20<CaptSolo>ah, OLPC
19:29:41<tuukkah>yeah
19:30:53<CaptSolo>interesting.
19:30:57<CaptSolo>it has python, right?
19:31:05<CaptSolo>perhaps we should get some too, in DERI
19:31:55<tuukkah>for sure. openmoko is getting python bindings too
19:33:45<CaptSolo>what are you building in python?
19:33:51<tuukkah>actually their further python plans is something i need to ask on tuesday when i have a chance to meet one of their employees
19:35:09<tuukkah>well, straw is written in python and we have made webkit usable via python for that. so i packaged the python binding for it for openmoko too
19:35:57<tuukkah>then i've got some simple scripts such as a services menu that i want to integrate to the phone ui
19:36:44<tuukkah>then there's a wikipedia user interface i might start to work on again now that there's a proper html widget in the works in pywebkitgtk
19:43:54<CaptSolo>'d be interesting to see that
19:44:59<tuukkah>the wikipedia browser you mean? http://tuukka.iki.fi/software/wikitin/
19:45:47<tuukkah>and the services menu without the integrated phone features such as "SMS this number" is here: http://tuukka.iki.fi/software/services/
19:46:18<CaptSolo>yes
19:46:57<CaptSolo>tuukkah: did you see terraces mentioned a SIOC workshop idea here?
19:47:14<tuukkah>i don't think i did
19:47:30<CaptSolo>it's great to see you building stuff, but a workshop like that could be a good opportunity to publish what you have done too
19:47:40<CaptSolo>i think we should organise it
19:48:03<CaptSolo>what are your thoughts?
19:48:07<tuukkah>yeah, publishing has been problematic in the projects i've worked with
19:49:04<tuukkah>it would definitely be cool if i was able to participate
19:49:09<CaptSolo>why? some of your work might be similar to Wikier's work (on SWAML). he does publish :)
19:49:54<CaptSolo>anyway, this can be a good event to organise and then to participate in
19:49:55<tuukkah>i suppose he has good mentors
19:50:17<tuukkah>:-)
19:50:24<CaptSolo>ask him
19:50:39<CaptSolo>reading your Straw discussion page now.
19:51:44<tuukkah>well if the straw/sioc plan is implemented that would definitely be worth writing about - especially if people like wikier collaborate
19:52:01<CaptSolo>true :)
19:52:25<CaptSolo>would also be good to motivate cross-institute collaboration in paper writing and development
19:52:52<CaptSolo>would Straw then be able to read SIOC data?
19:53:30<tuukkah>well, i can't promise much since before i get my master's degree finished i'm an undergraduate and now even without a research group
19:53:32<CaptSolo>btw - this work is similar / related to the Nepomuk - semantic desktop work that some of my colleagues are participating in
19:53:59<tuukkah>i know about nepomuk but i also know it's secret and nothing can be told about it ;-)
19:54:10<CaptSolo>tuukkah: in theory anyone can write papers :) even undergraduates.
19:54:36<tuukkah>yeah, but undergraduates are not encouraged to do that here
19:54:51<tuukkah>and don't have the resources and help etc.
19:54:53<CaptSolo>there could be a practical question of who funds your travel if your paper gets accepted, but that could be solvable too
19:55:04<tuukkah>you think so?
19:56:06<CaptSolo>i don't promise/say that DERI would be able to help (if needed, and if we write if together, this needs to be investigated in each particular case)
19:57:17<CaptSolo>but sure a person who has been motivate enough to get a paper in as an undergraduate is something that is worth supporting
19:57:19<tuukkah>ok, it think there will be one way or another to solve the travel
19:57:30<CaptSolo>precisely
19:58:17<CaptSolo>also, you may come to DERI for some time. paper-writing is definitely encouraged here. and internship students usually leave w. at least one paper written together with people in here
19:58:24<CaptSolo>just do it :)
19:59:11<tuukkah>thanks, that's a great opportunity
19:59:57<tuukkah>i'll have to see how things go here wrt my theses
20:01:02<CaptSolo>if you are writing a paper and need someone to help with reviewing it / suggesting improvements, someone here could be of help
20:01:48<CaptSolo>including me and John
20:01:55<CaptSolo>but thesis comes first, that's true :)
20:03:10<CaptSolo>---
20:03:32<CaptSolo>finally caught up on the discussion that was taking place here
20:03:49<CaptSolo>semantic desktop - that's definitely something i wish we had already :)
20:04:09<tuukkah>thanks for all the offers of help, makes things seem more possible :-)
20:04:41<CaptSolo>willing to collaborate w. what i can
20:07:32<tuukkah>i should find out more about the tracker project of gnome and how serious semantic desktop they're working towards in the near future
20:07:54<CaptSolo>exciting to see many people appreciate the idea, and working on it, each from his perspective
20:08:28<CaptSolo>Nepomuk is working with KDE, so it's going to get a semweb functionality in future
20:08:40<tuukkah>fenfire has failed hard so many times on it %-)
20:09:17<CaptSolo>which is a good thing - competition b/w Gnome and KDE in this field may mean more and better semantic desktop products for us :)
20:09:26<tuukkah>indeed :-)
20:09:35<CaptSolo>tuukkah: indeed (re fenfire)
20:10:01<CaptSolo>but then again at least one thing (hyperbolic RDF browser) was dropped when it was very perspective (in my view at least)
20:10:37<CaptSolo>i recall the patent issues, but if you are afraid of patents you should better not do any OOS development, as someone can always find some patent that you violate
20:10:46<tuukkah>sorry i'm multitasking too much, i don't think i answered about straw yet: yes, sioc in a triple store would become the native format of straw
20:10:48<CaptSolo>s/OOS/OSS
20:11:38<tuukkah>yeah, when we reimplemented fenfire with benja last time (fenfire-hs), we didn't care about patents anymore
20:12:40<CaptSolo>makes you wish you did not worry about patents from start :)
20:12:42<tuukkah>we just got the feeling that we were not going to get results worth our time. perhaps it will be revisited in the future though
20:12:49<CaptSolo>but maybe it was just too early
20:13:14<CaptSolo>have to focus on one thing, that's true
20:13:42<CaptSolo>tuukkah: understood re. Straw having SIOC as a native format.
20:13:44<tuukkah>well, earlier, it wasn't exactly us two personally worried about the patent but other stakeholders
20:14:03<CaptSolo>i was asking if it 'd consume SIOC (e.g., from a WordPres or Drupal SIOC exporter)
20:14:23<CaptSolo>i see. what happened to those stakeholders? ;)
20:14:58<Wikier>re
20:15:05<Wikier>[21:19] <CaptSolo> Wikier: what's the name of your friend who is going to work in Finland now?
20:15:07<tuukkah>they got uninterested in continuing the work
20:15:09<Wikier>CaptSolo: Ivan Frade
20:15:37<CaptSolo>Wikier: thanks. have not seen him around, but interesting to know who's who in the semantic web
20:15:49<Wikier>he begins on 17th october to work in Nokia Findland, on Desktop team (GNOME, Maemo, etc)
20:16:10<Wikier>CaptSolo: I'll keep you informed
20:16:19<tuukkah>CaptSolo, SIOC as a native format isn't a very practical selling point in the context of gnome at this point, but a backend that just copies triples is definitely feasible ;-)
20:17:04<CaptSolo>Wikier: great, thanks. as i mentioned earlier i am using a Maemo device too now.
20:17:30<CaptSolo>tuukkah: yeah
20:17:45<Wikier>CaptSolo: N770, I read it
20:17:49<CaptSolo>a selling point can sometimes also be - look, KDE are doing that!
20:17:54<Wikier>a great tablet
20:17:56<CaptSolo>sometimes it can backfire too, though
20:18:11<Wikier>CaptSolo: and yes, swaml tools probably works on maemo
20:18:18<CaptSolo>Wikier: indeed. it needs more CPU power though. good for basic browsing, but needs a bit more "juice"
20:18:30<CaptSolo>Wikier: that'd be interesting to try.
20:18:38<Wikier>but in buxon we need to del glade dependecy
20:18:50<CaptSolo>Wikier: great price too. it was selling for 135 EUR here. sold out quickly.
20:18:57<Wikier>CaptSolo: N800 are similar, with more memory
20:19:05<CaptSolo>Wikier: are you playing with those?
20:19:12<Wikier>no
20:19:23<Wikier>Ivan is the person that plays with those
20:19:24<CaptSolo>N800 is more powerful, true. not as low price though, so i may wait a bit.
20:19:43<CaptSolo>oh, i should ask him for best software to try on it then
20:20:00<CaptSolo>would be cool to have some semweb software on it too
20:20:10<CaptSolo>have to see what makes sense on such a device and what not
20:20:17<Wikier>there are remours that Nokia is planning the next version
20:20:25<Wikier>with GPS and other new features
20:20:49<CaptSolo>e.g., you probably won't be running CMSes and exporting sioc on them. [semantic] browsers are another story - might as well be cool, provided they are not too resource hungry
20:21:04<CaptSolo>Wikier: GPS can always be connected via Bluetooth
20:21:12<Wikier>yes
20:21:14<CaptSolo>integrated GPS is nice too
20:21:37<Wikier>also berrueta has another n770
20:21:37<CaptSolo>though, if you wanted to, say, track your route then it is probably better to have separate devices
20:22:12<CaptSolo>otherwise imagive having your PDA on to record your track for 5 hours. how long until it runs out of battery?
20:22:29<CaptSolo>a dedicated GPS on the other hand would probably do some 12h
20:22:37<CaptSolo>and if it dies your PDA still works
20:23:10<CaptSolo>Wikier: i just have got the device recently. have not hacked it much yet. did berrueta do something interesting w. it?
20:23:29<CaptSolo>Wikier: are you into gadgets too? or do you have other hobbies? ;)
20:24:04<CaptSolo>Wikier: for Maemo / N700/800 buxon might be interesting
20:24:12<Wikier>I don't have more gadgets
20:24:17<Wikier>only laptop and psp
20:24:25<CaptSolo>wo glade dependency, as you mentioned earlier
20:24:31<CaptSolo>psp is a gadget :P
20:24:41<CaptSolo>so you do other things in the free time then?
20:24:45<Wikier>yes, galde doesn't work on maemo plattform
20:25:01<Wikier>free time?
20:25:11<Wikier>yes, music, party, beer, sports
20:27:45<Wikier>how are irish beer? ;-)
20:31:52<tuukkah>talking of free time :-)
20:33:31<Wikier>:-)
20:34:15<Wikier>CaptSolo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliffs_of_Moher <-- this is near galway, so pretty
20:35:34<Wikier>btw, this week Dan Brickley comes to Asturias
20:35:35<Wikier>http://www.fundamentosweb.org/2007/Programa/Dia2/#agenda
20:40:05<Wikier>http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagen:Cliff_of_Moher.jpg
20:42:40<CaptSolo>sounds good :) - re hobbies
20:42:49<CaptSolo>oh, say hi to him!
20:43:56<CaptSolo>Wikier: you can find another photo of them by googleing for: captsolo moher
20:44:10<CaptSolo>Wikier: irish beer is good
20:44:24<CaptSolo>they even used to have an add that was saying: Guinness is good for you
20:44:36<CaptSolo>of course, now it's not legal to have such ads
20:44:40<CaptSolo>good old times :)
20:44:59<Wikier>http://captsolo.net/info/my-img/2005/05/10280014-p.jpg xDDD
20:45:32<CaptSolo>ah, you like that, don't you? ;)
20:45:34<CaptSolo>it's nice
20:45:40<Wikier>it's very nice
20:45:42<CaptSolo>would be good to go there again
20:45:47<CaptSolo>though we don't travel as much
20:45:55<Wikier>irish coast is similar than asturian coast
20:46:06<CaptSolo>so it's good if visitors come, then there's another reason to see the landscapes
20:46:27<CaptSolo>really? would be great to see asturian coast too then
20:47:00<Wikier>we have a pretty coast too
20:47:15<CaptSolo>i readily believe that
20:47:15<Wikier>but we also have a good combination: coast and mountains near
20:47:26<CaptSolo>still one thing is to know it, the other - to experience it
20:47:37<Wikier>http://www.spanish-living.com/images/Asturias%20beach.jpg
20:47:51<Wikier>http://www.celticattic.com/contact_us/the_celts/images/asturias_sea.jpg
20:48:02<CaptSolo>Wikier: i wonder if i could find a semantic web related reason to go visit you ;)
20:48:03<Wikier>http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/28/56/23365628.jpg
20:48:14<Wikier>:-)
20:48:15<CaptSolo>can, of course, go just for fun too
20:48:35<Wikier>Axel (Polleres) was here with my boss
20:48:47<Wikier>Antonio Campos, you know him
20:49:09<Wikier>visiting CTIC and asturias during a weekend
20:49:13<CaptSolo>those pictures look beautiful!
20:50:01<CaptSolo>is there some cooperation going on between CTIC and DERI now? or starting as a result of people (e.g. Axel) visiting?
20:50:12<Wikier>CaptSolo: be pacient
20:50:32<Wikier>but I'm working to begin this cooperation
20:50:54<Wikier>on mail that we will send John tomorrow there are some ideas
20:51:09<CaptSolo>we met with Antonio in Berlin, at ExpertFinder workshop, right?
20:51:21<Wikier>but Axel's visit was realted of a poryect (ECFinder)
20:51:28<Wikier>related*
20:51:36<Wikier>project*
20:51:37<Wikier>sorry
20:51:52<CaptSolo>any if you going to ISWC?
20:51:59<CaptSolo>indeed, ECFinder is related
20:52:23<CaptSolo>in fact, keeping in mind your active work related to SIOC someone from here should visit you too
20:52:26<Wikier>no, we don't send any to ISWC
20:52:31<CaptSolo>neither did i
20:52:35<CaptSolo>John might be going
20:52:49<CaptSolo>there's an expertfinding workshop in ISWC too
20:53:04<Wikier>CaptSolo: BTW. what is the state of ECFinder in Galway?
20:53:20<CaptSolo>there'll be also an Italian semweb event in December
20:53:36<Wikier>probably we'll go to Italy in December
20:53:43<CaptSolo>Wikier: i have not worked on it lately, so should ask John if he knows any new developments
20:54:03<CaptSolo>Wikier: any other events you plan to go to? or have papers accepted?
20:54:08<Wikier>http://www.qualipso.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=64
20:54:27<CaptSolo>i probably won't go to Italy - too much trvel already, and so close to Christmas....
20:54:36<Wikier>jeje
20:54:47<CaptSolo>Wikier: there was a ECFinder presentation at ESWC.
20:55:00<Wikier>yes, I know it
20:55:15<CaptSolo>i have some expertise and work related to expertfinder, in the past.
20:55:24<CaptSolo>and SIOC is a part of expertfinder core
20:55:29<CaptSolo>but you already know that
20:55:35<Wikier>but I don't know the interesting of other parterns to try a new proposal
20:56:00<Wikier>CaptSolo: ResumeRDF, a know it too
20:56:06<Wikier>I know it too
20:56:19<CaptSolo>oh, that open source conference looks interesting.
20:57:01<Wikier>we are writting something about interconection of FLOSS projects
20:57:09<Wikier>using sioc ;-)
20:57:16<Wikier>and other ontologies
20:57:18<CaptSolo>great. oh, even better if using SIOC :D
20:57:23<CaptSolo>and DOAP too, i suppose
20:57:37<CaptSolo>hope that goes well
20:58:00<tuukkah>wow
20:58:52<Wikier>but we have a lot of work these month that make difficult to write paper
21:01:54<CaptSolo>Wikier: the idea is good though, should be a pleasure to work on it
21:02:15<Wikier>it's only an idea
21:02:45<CaptSolo>maybe we can use descriptions of SIOC projects as a part of sample data set
21:03:03<CaptSolo>we need to make DOAP descriptions for those SIOC projects which don't already have one
21:03:13<Wikier>great idea
21:03:35<Wikier>if I have some time this week, I try to make something
21:03:52<Wikier>doapspace makes a great job with projects hosted in SF
21:04:02<CaptSolo>Wikier: wow, Fundamentos Web 2007 looks interesting
21:04:24<Wikier>it's organized by W3C spanish office (hosted by CTIC)
21:04:43<Wikier>it's the 3rd edition
21:05:13<Wikier>it would be better with TimBL in person xD
21:06:29<CaptSolo>if it's in DOAP i suppose doap:store would be able to index / show those too
21:06:34<CaptSolo>doap:store is visually very nice
21:07:03<CaptSolo>yeah, but it's great TimBL can make it at all :)
21:07:36<Wikier>I don't know him in person
21:07:52<Wikier>you know him on the ESWC2005
21:07:53<CaptSolo>the panel sounds interesting, i see Tantek Celik (microformats) is there too
21:07:55<Wikier>in Galway
21:08:01<CaptSolo>can raise some interesting discussions
21:08:15<Wikier>I'm not very fan of Tantek...
21:08:22<CaptSolo>will they be broadcasting it on the net / or at least providing a recording for access later?
21:08:26<CaptSolo>that'd be great
21:08:35<CaptSolo>i would definitely like to listen to that
21:09:11<CaptSolo>Wikier: not saying i am. but it means quite opposing points of view will be present, and differences lead to discussion
21:09:20<CaptSolo>sometimes constructive, sometimes not
21:09:33<CaptSolo>definitely better than if microformats were not represented there
21:09:53<CaptSolo>ACTION is interesting in the intersections / joint use of RDF and mformats
21:10:07<Wikier>I don't know, but other years videos are available <http://www.fundamentosweb.org/2006/programa/>
21:10:54<Wikier>CaptSolo: RDFa is powerful
21:11:23<CaptSolo>tuukkah: some links that can be useful for Straw discussion page:
21:11:28<CaptSolo>http://rdfs.org/sioc/applications/
21:11:43<CaptSolo>http://rdfs.org/sioc/related/
21:12:05<CaptSolo>Wikier: it is. some could say you don't need any microformats if you have RDFa
21:12:09<CaptSolo>what's your position?
21:12:48<CaptSolo>ah, Tantek will talk about the social network portability
21:12:56<CaptSolo>i wonder what'll be there
21:13:07<CaptSolo>the question is important, the approaches may be different
21:13:19<Wikier>certain
21:13:27<Wikier>CaptSolo: I prefer RDFa
21:13:43<Wikier>it has a formal semantic, microformat not
21:13:45<tuukkah>CaptSolo, right, this is one of those registration-required wikis :-( but thanks, i'll add them !-)
21:15:06<CaptSolo>http://microformats.org/wiki/gender-examples
21:15:14<Wikier>well guys, I go to read something before go to bed
21:15:15<Wikier>cu
21:15:18<CaptSolo>cu
21:15:48<CaptSolo>Wikier: mformats may be difficult to parse, once you have to consider combinations of a number of them together
21:16:06<CaptSolo>is there a study of this?
21:16:17<CaptSolo>for RDFa, you just parse it
21:16:28<Wikier>I'll will ask it to Tantek
21:16:35<CaptSolo>Wikier: perfect! :)
21:16:42<Wikier>RDFa is easy to parse
21:17:01<Wikier>I sent some patches for Herman's parser
21:17:24<Wikier>well, cu
21:18:59<CaptSolo>good night
21:19:02<CaptSolo>i am going too
21:19:50<tuukkah>good night!
21:32:00<CaptSolo>you too

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