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These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.
| 10:47:11 | <Wikier> | hi |
| 10:48:10 | <tuukkah> | hi |
| 10:52:39 | <Wikier> | hi tuukkah |
| 10:53:22 | <tuukkah> | Wikier, are you currently working on something that uses sioc? |
| 10:54:36 | <Wikier> | now exactly not |
| 10:54:49 | <Wikier> | but SIOC envolves everything |
| 10:54:59 | <Wikier> | tuukkah: you are from finland? |
| 10:55:11 | <tuukkah> | yes |
| 10:57:24 | <Wikier> | I friend will go to work on Finland next month |
| 10:57:35 | <Wikier> | on october begins in Nokia |
| 10:57:52 | <tuukkah> | i guess you're from asturias |
| 10:58:04 | <Wikier> | yes |
| 10:58:11 | <Wikier> | do you know asturias? |
| 10:58:27 | <tuukkah> | i've heard about it from people i met |
| 10:58:44 | <Wikier> | who? |
| 10:58:54 | <tuukkah> | do you remember which city your friend is moving to in finland? |
| 10:59:30 | <Wikier> | Helsinki |
| 10:59:36 | <tuukkah> | miriam (ruiz, i think) develops debian |
| 10:59:45 | <Wikier> | probably I'll make a visit on next year |
| 10:59:54 | <Wikier> | woo, do you know Miriam? |
| 11:00:14 | <Wikier> | yes, it's member of our LUG (linux local user group) |
| 11:00:24 | <Wikier> | she comes here this week |
| 11:00:42 | <Wikier> | because she returns to spain to work |
| 11:00:46 | <tuukkah> | i met her when i was visiting madrid |
| 11:01:14 | <tuukkah> | world is small :-) |
| 11:01:16 | <Wikier> | your a DD too? |
| 11:01:19 | <Wikier> | sorry |
| 11:01:30 | <tuukkah> | i'd like to become one |
| 11:01:33 | <Wikier> | you're a DD too? |
| 11:01:40 | <Wikier> | great |
| 11:01:58 | <Wikier> | Debian it's a interesting project |
| 11:02:06 | <tuukkah> | indeed |
| 11:02:11 | <Wikier> | tuukkah: my frind goes to work on Desktop team in Nokia |
| 11:02:22 | <Wikier> | GNOME, Maemo, etc |
| 11:02:42 | <Wikier> | a Nokia was very interesting on semantic web on his intervieu |
| 11:02:45 | <tuukkah> | that's cool |
| 11:03:49 | <Wikier> | (he worked with us at CTIC on semantic web research area) |
| 11:03:59 | <Wikier> | I don't hve more details :-/ |
| 11:04:14 | <tuukkah> | it might be secret :-/ |
| 11:04:14 | <Wikier> | but it's interesting that Nokia uses SW |
| 11:04:19 | <Wikier> | probably |
| 11:04:29 | <Wikier> | he doesn't know details |
| 11:05:02 | <tuukkah> | ora lassila is a prominent sw researcher at nokia |
| 11:05:21 | <Wikier> | I don't know him |
| 11:05:58 | <tuukkah> | i have just seen some of his publications |
| 11:10:03 | <Wikier> | he's in USA |
| 11:10:56 | <Wikier> | context, rules, etc... interesting |
| 11:11:39 | <tuukkah> | but, i don't know if nokia has deployed any sw technologies yet |
| 11:15:22 | <Wikier> | I don't know |
| 11:16:08 | <Wikier> | but it serves a semantic web representation of its catalog |
| 11:16:08 | <Wikier> | http://sw.nokia.com/ |
| 11:17:56 | <Wikier> | tuukkah: how Semantic Window Compositing works? |
| 11:17:57 | <tuukkah> | that's already something, and who knows, they might be using the catalog a lot already |
| 11:18:57 | <tuukkah> | Wikier, programs publish metadata about their windows, and the compositing window manager has views that employ that data |
| 11:19:46 | <Wikier> | and how i uses? |
| 11:19:53 | <Wikier> | and how it uses? |
| 11:20:12 | <tuukkah> | well, the possibilities are endless :-) |
| 11:20:49 | <tuukkah> | what i have this far is a focus+context navigation of related documents |
| 11:21:36 | <tuukkah> | it's intended as a replacement for the inherently limited tabbed browsing |
| 11:21:46 | <Wikier> | interesting |
| 11:24:54 | <Wikier> | well, we'll talk another day |
| 11:25:03 | <Wikier> | that I've to go away |
| 11:25:05 | <Wikier> | cu |
| 11:25:16 | <tuukkah> | give my best wishes to miriam when you see her! |
| 11:25:21 | <tuukkah> | see you! |
| 12:54:09 | <terraces> | hi all |
| 12:58:08 | <tuukkah> | hi terraces |
| 13:24:03 | <tuukkah> | http://sioc-project.org/publications would seem to be in need of an update |
| 14:02:08 | <terraces> | indeed, there's certainly more recent papers dealing with sioc |
| 14:14:05 | <tuukkah> | "for a more up-to-date list, please see http://www.google.com/scholar?q=semantic+sioc" ;-) |
| 14:17:29 | <tuukkah> | or where are the semantically interlinked online publications |
| 17:59:44 | <Wikier> | hi |
| 18:01:15 | <tuukkah> | hi Wikier |
| 18:06:38 | <Wikier> | hi tuukkah |
| 18:06:59 | <Wikier> | when I was away, you commented that SIOC publications is out of date |
| 18:07:18 | <Wikier> | I add one more paper now |
| 18:07:19 | <Wikier> | http://sioc-project.org/publications |
| 18:07:23 | <Wikier> | anything more? |
| 18:08:01 | <Wikier> | perhaps a footnotelinking to google scholar search |
| 18:08:07 | <Wikier> | perhaps a footnote linking to google scholar search |
| 18:08:13 | <tuukkah> | i read two papers on sioc explorer |
| 18:09:29 | <tuukkah> | Wikier, which one did you add? |
| 18:11:26 | <Wikier> | blogtalk |
| 18:11:41 | <Wikier> | about SIOC browser, on 2006 |
| 18:12:04 | <tuukkah> | right, i wanted to suggest that as a third paper missing but then i saw it wasn't missing :-) |
| 18:13:48 | <tuukkah> | now i remember i wanted to ask you about buxon and swaml, how are they ?-) |
| 18:14:00 | <Wikier> | umm |
| 18:14:03 | <Wikier> | frozen |
| 18:14:10 | <Wikier> | we have more ideas |
| 18:14:18 | <Wikier> | some of then already implemented |
| 18:14:36 | <Wikier> | but I need time to publish a new stable version |
| 18:14:55 | <Wikier> | for example, now SWAML has support to XHTML+RDFa+GRDDL |
| 18:14:58 | <tuukkah> | can i see the parts already implemented in svn? |
| 18:16:16 | <Wikier> | of course |
| 18:16:29 | <tuukkah> | great :-) |
| 18:16:32 | <Wikier> | and demos |
| 18:16:33 | <Wikier> | http://swaml.berlios.de/demos/ |
| 18:16:44 | <Wikier> | sioc-dev is exported with v0.0.5 |
| 18:16:54 | <Wikier> | but swaml-devel is exported with svn version |
| 18:17:45 | <tuukkah> | yeah, i can see the xhtml with nice triples :-) |
| 18:17:58 | <Wikier> | :-) |
| 18:18:28 | <tuukkah> | so what did you actually mean by frozen if there are new features and plans for more :-) |
| 18:18:50 | <Wikier> | yes |
| 18:19:16 | <Wikier> | now we don't have time to work on swaml |
| 18:19:33 | <Wikier> | but it's an important project for us |
| 18:19:39 | <tuukkah> | i see |
| 18:19:59 | <tuukkah> | buxon too? |
| 18:24:37 | <tuukkah> | i'm asking because i am planning something similar |
| 18:25:11 | <Wikier> | buxon, good question |
| 18:25:23 | <Wikier> | buxion initially was only a prototype |
| 18:25:31 | <Wikier> | but also a good idea |
| 18:25:41 | <Wikier> | then I need some time to refactor all code |
| 18:25:52 | <Wikier> | but buxon continues too, yes |
| 18:26:34 | <tuukkah> | my current plan is here: http://live.gnome.org/Straw/DiscussionTracker |
| 18:28:27 | <tuukkah> | basically i'm trying to see where feed readers like straw *should* be going in the future |
| 18:28:59 | <Wikier> | interesting |
| 18:29:24 | <Wikier> | ambitious |
| 18:29:29 | <Wikier> | but interesting |
| 18:30:28 | <tuukkah> | perhaps not too ambitious if many people like the idea and collaborate |
| 18:31:29 | <Wikier> | semantic desktop is an idea that are in my mind from few years |
| 18:32:00 | <Wikier> | tuukkah: perhaps I could help you :-) |
| 18:32:47 | <tuukkah> | indeed :-) |
| 18:35:34 | <tuukkah> | and with swaml, you already have :-) |
| 18:36:23 | <tuukkah> | like i mention, swaml should be used to give straw an mbox-backend |
| 18:38:16 | <Wikier> | yes, I watching your diagram |
| 18:38:27 | <Wikier> | and swaml could be a backend, yes |
| 18:38:55 | <tuukkah> | there are many mailing lists with public mbox, right? if we could poll those for changes and download partial content, there would be a good way to read mailing lists without subscribing |
| 18:41:20 | <Wikier> | on theses days we are working to recover mboxes of debian and gnome |
| 18:41:46 | <tuukkah> | i'm looking at debian bts right now :-) |
| 18:41:55 | <Wikier> | when I have more details, I'll tell you |
| 18:44:17 | <tuukkah> | cool |
| 18:46:18 | <tuukkah> | and then buxon, perhaps it can be used as a frontend in the architecture |
| 18:47:06 | <tuukkah> | i don't see what would be the right way to divide sioc ui functionality into separate frontends though |
| 18:51:15 | <tuukkah> | like, one for reading news, one for replying in discussions, one for im? |
| 18:52:14 | <CaptSolo> | hi all |
| 18:52:18 | <tuukkah> | hi CaptSolo |
| 18:52:31 | <CaptSolo> | heheee, Wikier's online too |
| 18:52:34 | <CaptSolo> | hi tuukkah |
| 18:53:32 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: Benjamin mailed me he came to #sioc but probably did not stay long enough to hear from you what problems you had w. SIOC Explorer |
| 18:53:53 | <CaptSolo> | could you contact him in email (cc: to me) at benjamin.heitmann (at) deri.org ? |
| 18:54:07 | <CaptSolo> | and write about the problem |
| 18:54:12 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, yes, i was two hours late |
| 18:54:34 | <tuukkah> | sure, i wanted to ask you about the email addr :-) |
| 18:54:43 | <Wikier> | hi CaptSolo |
| 18:55:07 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: ok, now you have it :) |
| 18:55:13 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: how're things? |
| 18:55:15 | <Wikier> | tuukkah: in which language is written straw? |
| 18:55:19 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, thanks :-) |
| 18:55:24 | <tuukkah> | Wikier, python |
| 18:55:29 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: it was a good weekend |
| 18:55:37 | <Wikier> | buf tomorrow is monday :-/ |
| 18:55:43 | <CaptSolo> | you and colleagues did a great job getting SIOC W3C submission in a better shape |
| 18:56:01 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: that's great - re. weekend. monday sucks, that's true too |
| 18:56:03 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: but if you talk with John, tomorrow I will send him an important mail |
| 18:56:13 | <Wikier> | tuukkah: great! I love python |
| 18:56:33 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: great, will tell him. |
| 18:56:39 | <Wikier> | about my intership |
| 18:56:47 | <CaptSolo> | would you be coming to Galway for an internship? |
| 18:56:55 | <CaptSolo> | that'd be great |
| 18:57:02 | <CaptSolo> | John mentioned a possiblity |
| 18:57:20 | <CaptSolo> | ACTION likes Python too |
| 18:57:38 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, more than haskell ;-) |
| 18:57:50 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: I would like to go Galwat, yes |
| 18:57:59 | <Wikier> | but we've to discuss the way |
| 18:58:24 | <Wikier> | tomorrow I'll write John about details |
| 18:58:32 | <CaptSolo> | ACTION scrolling back |
| 18:58:39 | <CaptSolo> | 17:03 < tuukkah> then i was thinking aloud that we might want to tag forums without threading as such |
| 18:58:42 | <CaptSolo> | 17:05 < tuukkah> that is, it's semantically relevent to the reply structure of the posts whether you typically reply to a post explicitly or just add your post to the end |
| 18:58:45 | <CaptSolo> | 17:06 < tuukkah> mailing lists are of the explicit kind, blog comments and irc are of the implicit kind |
| 18:59:02 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: hope that goes well. |
| 18:59:25 | <CaptSolo> | that goes for all members of the SIOC community - if you wish to come for an internship to DERI, I suppose there's a way |
| 18:59:36 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier's first ;-) |
| 18:59:55 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: thx! |
| 19:00:30 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: re. your earlier text - yes, some systems have explicit threading information, while some do not |
| 19:00:47 | <CaptSolo> | there are some blogs that do comment threading, but those are a minority |
| 19:00:49 | <Wikier> | it would be interesting to learn with you and John |
| 19:00:56 | <Wikier> | tuukkah: http://sioc-project.org/publications <-- updated |
| 19:01:01 | <CaptSolo> | mailing lists do have it (in most cases if not all) |
| 19:01:22 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, so you see my concern that we should make this distinction expressable in sioc? |
| 19:01:25 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: same here - 'd be cool & interesting to work together |
| 19:01:52 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: so - how do we model each of these cases? |
| 19:02:11 | <CaptSolo> | do you want to describe here, and then put an example on a wiki? |
| 19:03:12 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: good to see more publications |
| 19:03:29 | <CaptSolo> | there's also a wiki page for collecting pointers to [online] publications / blog entries about SIOC |
| 19:03:31 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, i don't know what would be the best way to implement this. is multiple-inheritance a bad idea? would we just have a boolean property for Forum? |
| 19:03:39 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: and more... http://www.google.com/scholar?q=semantic+sioc |
| 19:03:42 | <Wikier> | :-) |
| 19:04:23 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: what would this boolean property express? |
| 19:04:45 | <CaptSolo> | http://wiki.sioc-project.org/w/SIOC_In_Press |
| 19:05:06 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, whether the Posts in the Forum are implicitly threaded or not |
| 19:05:20 | <tuukkah> | Wikier, thanks for the update |
| 19:05:31 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: there's difference though - for a person to actively search for "semantic sioc" he has to have enough motivation already. but a summary page [on SIOC site] can be something people stumble upon |
| 19:05:43 | <CaptSolo> | or something we can point to in a presentation |
| 19:05:48 | <CaptSolo> | both have their uses |
| 19:05:59 | <Wikier> | well, I go to have dinner |
| 19:06:00 | <Wikier> | cu |
| 19:06:02 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: have you got any publications to add tothe list too? |
| 19:06:19 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: have a nice dinner! |
| 19:07:13 | <tuukkah> | Wikier, cu! |
| 19:07:23 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: hmmm, would it not be better to just express one or the other implicitly, via relations (or lack of them) b/w the comments? |
| 19:07:29 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, i might add your latest paper on semantic sioc explorer =) |
| 19:07:49 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: hehe :) true, need to add that. if you wish, go ahead and add it :D |
| 19:08:06 | <CaptSolo> | though you know i was asking about papers from your team, don't you? ;) |
| 19:08:37 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: re. this property - write to SIOC-Dev proposing the property and see where the discussion leads |
| 19:08:42 | <tuukkah> | i know, but we don't have papers |
| 19:08:47 | <CaptSolo> | would be interesting to discuss and see what people things |
| 19:08:49 | <CaptSolo> | thinks |
| 19:08:52 | <CaptSolo> | think |
| 19:09:33 | <CaptSolo> | one exercise for the mind: to think how we 'd express these both situations w. existing properties / classes |
| 19:10:36 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: btw, if adding a property to a forum, then it won't affect the comments for posts |
| 19:10:50 | <CaptSolo> | as those are not part of a forum |
| 19:11:52 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: did you add the link to google scholar ?q=semantic+sioc ? |
| 19:11:59 | <CaptSolo> | a great idead |
| 19:13:06 | <tuukkah> | i don't remember all the properties we have, but the simple lack of explicit replies doesn't mean there can't be any. and even if there are some explicit replies doesn't mean there isn't also some implied reply structure |
| 19:13:11 | <CaptSolo> | --- |
| 19:13:31 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: when you mentioned debian on #sioc earlier on, i remebered i have a Nokia N770 |
| 19:13:35 | <CaptSolo> | which runs Debian |
| 19:13:58 | <CaptSolo> | and also that there's an idea to form a LUG Galway |
| 19:14:35 | <CaptSolo> | though not sure if we can run Wikier's software on a N770. |
| 19:14:40 | <tuukkah> | do you like the tablet? |
| 19:15:05 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: what's the name of your friend who is going to work in Finland now? |
| 19:15:21 | <CaptSolo> | oh, i see you mentioned Maemo too :) |
| 19:15:52 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: i like it. screen is brilliant, something i've been waiting to appear for a long time |
| 19:16:05 | <CaptSolo> | it's CPU, RAM and flash amount sucks bigtime though |
| 19:16:34 | <CaptSolo> | too little memory, too slow CPU. and not sure N800 is that much further ahead in this regard. |
| 19:16:39 | <CaptSolo> | do you use it too? |
| 19:17:06 | <tuukkah> | i'm playing with the openmoko phone currently |
| 19:17:35 | <tuukkah> | it's a pity the screen is only half the size of the nokia tablet |
| 19:18:19 | <tuukkah> | plus they don't use real debian but a system adapted from it for embedded devices |
| 19:19:26 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: Ora Lassila is at Nokia, isn't he? and Patrick Stickler too, i think. |
| 19:20:10 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: how does it compary to Nokia tech-spec-wise? |
| 19:20:49 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: you said you don't have any papers. SIOC-related at least. are you not encouraged to write papers at the university? |
| 19:21:30 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, yes we looked at ora lassila but were wondering if they actually have any products that use rdf |
| 19:21:52 | <CaptSolo> | he has some applications written |
| 19:22:01 | <CaptSolo> | but i don't know if they are used commercially |
| 19:22:08 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, n800 vs. neo1973 isn't a straight-forward comparison. an important part is the latter is a *phone* :-) |
| 19:22:09 | <CaptSolo> | if they are, is it public knowledge |
| 19:22:36 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: i am not excited by phone+pda combos. though Neo is mainly a phone, isn't it? |
| 19:22:55 | <CaptSolo> | ACTION likes the power to upgrade phone and PDA independently of each other. |
| 19:23:08 | <CaptSolo> | and use BT to connect 'em together |
| 19:23:24 | <tuukkah> | yeah, a it's mainly a phone, at it's got some serious bluetooth powers :-) |
| 19:23:32 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: i know that people in DERI's E-learning cluster are playing with things like Neo |
| 19:23:46 | <CaptSolo> | and WinME PDA phones |
| 19:23:57 | <CaptSolo> | and many more gadgets |
| 19:24:34 | <CaptSolo> | re. tools by Ora Lassila / Nokia - http://wilbur-rdf.sourceforge.net/ |
| 19:24:38 | <tuukkah> | i'm becoming a gadget freak since the appearance of linux mobile gadgets :-) |
| 19:25:22 | <CaptSolo> | what gangets are you hacking at? |
| 19:25:32 | <CaptSolo> | i really like N770, though have not hacked it much |
| 19:25:43 | <CaptSolo> | Linksys wifi router is also nice |
| 19:26:06 | <tuukkah> | well, only the openmoko at the moment, then i have a wrt54gs since long |
| 19:26:17 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: re. comparing - you cna still compare how much RAM, CPU and flash they have |
| 19:26:39 | <tuukkah> | i hope i manage to get an xo laptop in november when it's possible to buy one |
| 19:26:46 | <CaptSolo> | just add a 'v' for "is a phone" column in comparision for Neo |
| 19:26:54 | <CaptSolo> | xo laptop? |
| 19:27:07 | <tuukkah> | the "$100" one |
| 19:27:44 | <tuukkah> | with special "works for children in developing countries too" powers |
| 19:29:20 | <CaptSolo> | ah, OLPC |
| 19:29:41 | <tuukkah> | yeah |
| 19:30:53 | <CaptSolo> | interesting. |
| 19:30:57 | <CaptSolo> | it has python, right? |
| 19:31:05 | <CaptSolo> | perhaps we should get some too, in DERI |
| 19:31:55 | <tuukkah> | for sure. openmoko is getting python bindings too |
| 19:33:45 | <CaptSolo> | what are you building in python? |
| 19:33:51 | <tuukkah> | actually their further python plans is something i need to ask on tuesday when i have a chance to meet one of their employees |
| 19:35:09 | <tuukkah> | well, straw is written in python and we have made webkit usable via python for that. so i packaged the python binding for it for openmoko too |
| 19:35:57 | <tuukkah> | then i've got some simple scripts such as a services menu that i want to integrate to the phone ui |
| 19:36:44 | <tuukkah> | then there's a wikipedia user interface i might start to work on again now that there's a proper html widget in the works in pywebkitgtk |
| 19:43:54 | <CaptSolo> | 'd be interesting to see that |
| 19:44:59 | <tuukkah> | the wikipedia browser you mean? http://tuukka.iki.fi/software/wikitin/ |
| 19:45:47 | <tuukkah> | and the services menu without the integrated phone features such as "SMS this number" is here: http://tuukka.iki.fi/software/services/ |
| 19:46:18 | <CaptSolo> | yes |
| 19:46:57 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: did you see terraces mentioned a SIOC workshop idea here? |
| 19:47:14 | <tuukkah> | i don't think i did |
| 19:47:30 | <CaptSolo> | it's great to see you building stuff, but a workshop like that could be a good opportunity to publish what you have done too |
| 19:47:40 | <CaptSolo> | i think we should organise it |
| 19:48:03 | <CaptSolo> | what are your thoughts? |
| 19:48:07 | <tuukkah> | yeah, publishing has been problematic in the projects i've worked with |
| 19:49:04 | <tuukkah> | it would definitely be cool if i was able to participate |
| 19:49:09 | <CaptSolo> | why? some of your work might be similar to Wikier's work (on SWAML). he does publish :) |
| 19:49:54 | <CaptSolo> | anyway, this can be a good event to organise and then to participate in |
| 19:49:55 | <tuukkah> | i suppose he has good mentors |
| 19:50:17 | <tuukkah> | :-) |
| 19:50:24 | <CaptSolo> | ask him |
| 19:50:39 | <CaptSolo> | reading your Straw discussion page now. |
| 19:51:44 | <tuukkah> | well if the straw/sioc plan is implemented that would definitely be worth writing about - especially if people like wikier collaborate |
| 19:52:01 | <CaptSolo> | true :) |
| 19:52:25 | <CaptSolo> | would also be good to motivate cross-institute collaboration in paper writing and development |
| 19:52:52 | <CaptSolo> | would Straw then be able to read SIOC data? |
| 19:53:30 | <tuukkah> | well, i can't promise much since before i get my master's degree finished i'm an undergraduate and now even without a research group |
| 19:53:32 | <CaptSolo> | btw - this work is similar / related to the Nepomuk - semantic desktop work that some of my colleagues are participating in |
| 19:53:59 | <tuukkah> | i know about nepomuk but i also know it's secret and nothing can be told about it ;-) |
| 19:54:10 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: in theory anyone can write papers :) even undergraduates. |
| 19:54:36 | <tuukkah> | yeah, but undergraduates are not encouraged to do that here |
| 19:54:51 | <tuukkah> | and don't have the resources and help etc. |
| 19:54:53 | <CaptSolo> | there could be a practical question of who funds your travel if your paper gets accepted, but that could be solvable too |
| 19:55:04 | <tuukkah> | you think so? |
| 19:56:06 | <CaptSolo> | i don't promise/say that DERI would be able to help (if needed, and if we write if together, this needs to be investigated in each particular case) |
| 19:57:17 | <CaptSolo> | but sure a person who has been motivate enough to get a paper in as an undergraduate is something that is worth supporting |
| 19:57:19 | <tuukkah> | ok, it think there will be one way or another to solve the travel |
| 19:57:30 | <CaptSolo> | precisely |
| 19:58:17 | <CaptSolo> | also, you may come to DERI for some time. paper-writing is definitely encouraged here. and internship students usually leave w. at least one paper written together with people in here |
| 19:58:24 | <CaptSolo> | just do it :) |
| 19:59:11 | <tuukkah> | thanks, that's a great opportunity |
| 19:59:57 | <tuukkah> | i'll have to see how things go here wrt my theses |
| 20:01:02 | <CaptSolo> | if you are writing a paper and need someone to help with reviewing it / suggesting improvements, someone here could be of help |
| 20:01:48 | <CaptSolo> | including me and John |
| 20:01:55 | <CaptSolo> | but thesis comes first, that's true :) |
| 20:03:10 | <CaptSolo> | --- |
| 20:03:32 | <CaptSolo> | finally caught up on the discussion that was taking place here |
| 20:03:49 | <CaptSolo> | semantic desktop - that's definitely something i wish we had already :) |
| 20:04:09 | <tuukkah> | thanks for all the offers of help, makes things seem more possible :-) |
| 20:04:41 | <CaptSolo> | willing to collaborate w. what i can |
| 20:07:32 | <tuukkah> | i should find out more about the tracker project of gnome and how serious semantic desktop they're working towards in the near future |
| 20:07:54 | <CaptSolo> | exciting to see many people appreciate the idea, and working on it, each from his perspective |
| 20:08:28 | <CaptSolo> | Nepomuk is working with KDE, so it's going to get a semweb functionality in future |
| 20:08:40 | <tuukkah> | fenfire has failed hard so many times on it %-) |
| 20:09:17 | <CaptSolo> | which is a good thing - competition b/w Gnome and KDE in this field may mean more and better semantic desktop products for us :) |
| 20:09:26 | <tuukkah> | indeed :-) |
| 20:09:35 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: indeed (re fenfire) |
| 20:10:01 | <CaptSolo> | but then again at least one thing (hyperbolic RDF browser) was dropped when it was very perspective (in my view at least) |
| 20:10:37 | <CaptSolo> | i recall the patent issues, but if you are afraid of patents you should better not do any OOS development, as someone can always find some patent that you violate |
| 20:10:46 | <tuukkah> | sorry i'm multitasking too much, i don't think i answered about straw yet: yes, sioc in a triple store would become the native format of straw |
| 20:10:48 | <CaptSolo> | s/OOS/OSS |
| 20:11:38 | <tuukkah> | yeah, when we reimplemented fenfire with benja last time (fenfire-hs), we didn't care about patents anymore |
| 20:12:40 | <CaptSolo> | makes you wish you did not worry about patents from start :) |
| 20:12:42 | <tuukkah> | we just got the feeling that we were not going to get results worth our time. perhaps it will be revisited in the future though |
| 20:12:49 | <CaptSolo> | but maybe it was just too early |
| 20:13:14 | <CaptSolo> | have to focus on one thing, that's true |
| 20:13:42 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: understood re. Straw having SIOC as a native format. |
| 20:13:44 | <tuukkah> | well, earlier, it wasn't exactly us two personally worried about the patent but other stakeholders |
| 20:14:03 | <CaptSolo> | i was asking if it 'd consume SIOC (e.g., from a WordPres or Drupal SIOC exporter) |
| 20:14:23 | <CaptSolo> | i see. what happened to those stakeholders? ;) |
| 20:14:58 | <Wikier> | re |
| 20:15:05 | <Wikier> | [21:19] <CaptSolo> Wikier: what's the name of your friend who is going to work in Finland now? |
| 20:15:07 | <tuukkah> | they got uninterested in continuing the work |
| 20:15:09 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: Ivan Frade |
| 20:15:37 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: thanks. have not seen him around, but interesting to know who's who in the semantic web |
| 20:15:49 | <Wikier> | he begins on 17th october to work in Nokia Findland, on Desktop team (GNOME, Maemo, etc) |
| 20:16:10 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: I'll keep you informed |
| 20:16:19 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, SIOC as a native format isn't a very practical selling point in the context of gnome at this point, but a backend that just copies triples is definitely feasible ;-) |
| 20:17:04 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: great, thanks. as i mentioned earlier i am using a Maemo device too now. |
| 20:17:30 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: yeah |
| 20:17:45 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: N770, I read it |
| 20:17:49 | <CaptSolo> | a selling point can sometimes also be - look, KDE are doing that! |
| 20:17:54 | <Wikier> | a great tablet |
| 20:17:56 | <CaptSolo> | sometimes it can backfire too, though |
| 20:18:11 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: and yes, swaml tools probably works on maemo |
| 20:18:18 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: indeed. it needs more CPU power though. good for basic browsing, but needs a bit more "juice" |
| 20:18:30 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: that'd be interesting to try. |
| 20:18:38 | <Wikier> | but in buxon we need to del glade dependecy |
| 20:18:50 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: great price too. it was selling for 135 EUR here. sold out quickly. |
| 20:18:57 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: N800 are similar, with more memory |
| 20:19:05 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: are you playing with those? |
| 20:19:12 | <Wikier> | no |
| 20:19:23 | <Wikier> | Ivan is the person that plays with those |
| 20:19:24 | <CaptSolo> | N800 is more powerful, true. not as low price though, so i may wait a bit. |
| 20:19:43 | <CaptSolo> | oh, i should ask him for best software to try on it then |
| 20:20:00 | <CaptSolo> | would be cool to have some semweb software on it too |
| 20:20:10 | <CaptSolo> | have to see what makes sense on such a device and what not |
| 20:20:17 | <Wikier> | there are remours that Nokia is planning the next version |
| 20:20:25 | <Wikier> | with GPS and other new features |
| 20:20:49 | <CaptSolo> | e.g., you probably won't be running CMSes and exporting sioc on them. [semantic] browsers are another story - might as well be cool, provided they are not too resource hungry |
| 20:21:04 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: GPS can always be connected via Bluetooth |
| 20:21:12 | <Wikier> | yes |
| 20:21:14 | <CaptSolo> | integrated GPS is nice too |
| 20:21:37 | <Wikier> | also berrueta has another n770 |
| 20:21:37 | <CaptSolo> | though, if you wanted to, say, track your route then it is probably better to have separate devices |
| 20:22:12 | <CaptSolo> | otherwise imagive having your PDA on to record your track for 5 hours. how long until it runs out of battery? |
| 20:22:29 | <CaptSolo> | a dedicated GPS on the other hand would probably do some 12h |
| 20:22:37 | <CaptSolo> | and if it dies your PDA still works |
| 20:23:10 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: i just have got the device recently. have not hacked it much yet. did berrueta do something interesting w. it? |
| 20:23:29 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: are you into gadgets too? or do you have other hobbies? ;) |
| 20:24:04 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: for Maemo / N700/800 buxon might be interesting |
| 20:24:12 | <Wikier> | I don't have more gadgets |
| 20:24:17 | <Wikier> | only laptop and psp |
| 20:24:25 | <CaptSolo> | wo glade dependency, as you mentioned earlier |
| 20:24:31 | <CaptSolo> | psp is a gadget :P |
| 20:24:41 | <CaptSolo> | so you do other things in the free time then? |
| 20:24:45 | <Wikier> | yes, galde doesn't work on maemo plattform |
| 20:25:01 | <Wikier> | free time? |
| 20:25:11 | <Wikier> | yes, music, party, beer, sports |
| 20:27:45 | <Wikier> | how are irish beer? ;-) |
| 20:31:52 | <tuukkah> | talking of free time :-) |
| 20:33:31 | <Wikier> | :-) |
| 20:34:15 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliffs_of_Moher <-- this is near galway, so pretty |
| 20:35:34 | <Wikier> | btw, this week Dan Brickley comes to Asturias |
| 20:35:35 | <Wikier> | http://www.fundamentosweb.org/2007/Programa/Dia2/#agenda |
| 20:40:05 | <Wikier> | http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagen:Cliff_of_Moher.jpg |
| 20:42:40 | <CaptSolo> | sounds good :) - re hobbies |
| 20:42:49 | <CaptSolo> | oh, say hi to him! |
| 20:43:56 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: you can find another photo of them by googleing for: captsolo moher |
| 20:44:10 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: irish beer is good |
| 20:44:24 | <CaptSolo> | they even used to have an add that was saying: Guinness is good for you |
| 20:44:36 | <CaptSolo> | of course, now it's not legal to have such ads |
| 20:44:40 | <CaptSolo> | good old times :) |
| 20:44:59 | <Wikier> | http://captsolo.net/info/my-img/2005/05/10280014-p.jpg xDDD |
| 20:45:32 | <CaptSolo> | ah, you like that, don't you? ;) |
| 20:45:34 | <CaptSolo> | it's nice |
| 20:45:40 | <Wikier> | it's very nice |
| 20:45:42 | <CaptSolo> | would be good to go there again |
| 20:45:47 | <CaptSolo> | though we don't travel as much |
| 20:45:55 | <Wikier> | irish coast is similar than asturian coast |
| 20:46:06 | <CaptSolo> | so it's good if visitors come, then there's another reason to see the landscapes |
| 20:46:27 | <CaptSolo> | really? would be great to see asturian coast too then |
| 20:47:00 | <Wikier> | we have a pretty coast too |
| 20:47:15 | <CaptSolo> | i readily believe that |
| 20:47:15 | <Wikier> | but we also have a good combination: coast and mountains near |
| 20:47:26 | <CaptSolo> | still one thing is to know it, the other - to experience it |
| 20:47:37 | <Wikier> | http://www.spanish-living.com/images/Asturias%20beach.jpg |
| 20:47:51 | <Wikier> | http://www.celticattic.com/contact_us/the_celts/images/asturias_sea.jpg |
| 20:48:02 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: i wonder if i could find a semantic web related reason to go visit you ;) |
| 20:48:03 | <Wikier> | http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/28/56/23365628.jpg |
| 20:48:14 | <Wikier> | :-) |
| 20:48:15 | <CaptSolo> | can, of course, go just for fun too |
| 20:48:35 | <Wikier> | Axel (Polleres) was here with my boss |
| 20:48:47 | <Wikier> | Antonio Campos, you know him |
| 20:49:09 | <Wikier> | visiting CTIC and asturias during a weekend |
| 20:49:13 | <CaptSolo> | those pictures look beautiful! |
| 20:50:01 | <CaptSolo> | is there some cooperation going on between CTIC and DERI now? or starting as a result of people (e.g. Axel) visiting? |
| 20:50:12 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: be pacient |
| 20:50:32 | <Wikier> | but I'm working to begin this cooperation |
| 20:50:54 | <Wikier> | on mail that we will send John tomorrow there are some ideas |
| 20:51:09 | <CaptSolo> | we met with Antonio in Berlin, at ExpertFinder workshop, right? |
| 20:51:21 | <Wikier> | but Axel's visit was realted of a poryect (ECFinder) |
| 20:51:28 | <Wikier> | related* |
| 20:51:36 | <Wikier> | project* |
| 20:51:37 | <Wikier> | sorry |
| 20:51:52 | <CaptSolo> | any if you going to ISWC? |
| 20:51:59 | <CaptSolo> | indeed, ECFinder is related |
| 20:52:23 | <CaptSolo> | in fact, keeping in mind your active work related to SIOC someone from here should visit you too |
| 20:52:26 | <Wikier> | no, we don't send any to ISWC |
| 20:52:31 | <CaptSolo> | neither did i |
| 20:52:35 | <CaptSolo> | John might be going |
| 20:52:49 | <CaptSolo> | there's an expertfinding workshop in ISWC too |
| 20:53:04 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: BTW. what is the state of ECFinder in Galway? |
| 20:53:20 | <CaptSolo> | there'll be also an Italian semweb event in December |
| 20:53:36 | <Wikier> | probably we'll go to Italy in December |
| 20:53:43 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: i have not worked on it lately, so should ask John if he knows any new developments |
| 20:54:03 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: any other events you plan to go to? or have papers accepted? |
| 20:54:08 | <Wikier> | http://www.qualipso.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=64 |
| 20:54:27 | <CaptSolo> | i probably won't go to Italy - too much trvel already, and so close to Christmas.... |
| 20:54:36 | <Wikier> | jeje |
| 20:54:47 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: there was a ECFinder presentation at ESWC. |
| 20:55:00 | <Wikier> | yes, I know it |
| 20:55:15 | <CaptSolo> | i have some expertise and work related to expertfinder, in the past. |
| 20:55:24 | <CaptSolo> | and SIOC is a part of expertfinder core |
| 20:55:29 | <CaptSolo> | but you already know that |
| 20:55:35 | <Wikier> | but I don't know the interesting of other parterns to try a new proposal |
| 20:56:00 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: ResumeRDF, a know it too |
| 20:56:06 | <Wikier> | I know it too |
| 20:56:19 | <CaptSolo> | oh, that open source conference looks interesting. |
| 20:57:01 | <Wikier> | we are writting something about interconection of FLOSS projects |
| 20:57:09 | <Wikier> | using sioc ;-) |
| 20:57:16 | <Wikier> | and other ontologies |
| 20:57:18 | <CaptSolo> | great. oh, even better if using SIOC :D |
| 20:57:23 | <CaptSolo> | and DOAP too, i suppose |
| 20:57:37 | <CaptSolo> | hope that goes well |
| 20:58:00 | <tuukkah> | wow |
| 20:58:52 | <Wikier> | but we have a lot of work these month that make difficult to write paper |
| 21:01:54 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: the idea is good though, should be a pleasure to work on it |
| 21:02:15 | <Wikier> | it's only an idea |
| 21:02:45 | <CaptSolo> | maybe we can use descriptions of SIOC projects as a part of sample data set |
| 21:03:03 | <CaptSolo> | we need to make DOAP descriptions for those SIOC projects which don't already have one |
| 21:03:13 | <Wikier> | great idea |
| 21:03:35 | <Wikier> | if I have some time this week, I try to make something |
| 21:03:52 | <Wikier> | doapspace makes a great job with projects hosted in SF |
| 21:04:02 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: wow, Fundamentos Web 2007 looks interesting |
| 21:04:24 | <Wikier> | it's organized by W3C spanish office (hosted by CTIC) |
| 21:04:43 | <Wikier> | it's the 3rd edition |
| 21:05:13 | <Wikier> | it would be better with TimBL in person xD |
| 21:06:29 | <CaptSolo> | if it's in DOAP i suppose doap:store would be able to index / show those too |
| 21:06:34 | <CaptSolo> | doap:store is visually very nice |
| 21:07:03 | <CaptSolo> | yeah, but it's great TimBL can make it at all :) |
| 21:07:36 | <Wikier> | I don't know him in person |
| 21:07:52 | <Wikier> | you know him on the ESWC2005 |
| 21:07:53 | <CaptSolo> | the panel sounds interesting, i see Tantek Celik (microformats) is there too |
| 21:07:55 | <Wikier> | in Galway |
| 21:08:01 | <CaptSolo> | can raise some interesting discussions |
| 21:08:15 | <Wikier> | I'm not very fan of Tantek... |
| 21:08:22 | <CaptSolo> | will they be broadcasting it on the net / or at least providing a recording for access later? |
| 21:08:26 | <CaptSolo> | that'd be great |
| 21:08:35 | <CaptSolo> | i would definitely like to listen to that |
| 21:09:11 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: not saying i am. but it means quite opposing points of view will be present, and differences lead to discussion |
| 21:09:20 | <CaptSolo> | sometimes constructive, sometimes not |
| 21:09:33 | <CaptSolo> | definitely better than if microformats were not represented there |
| 21:09:53 | <CaptSolo> | ACTION is interesting in the intersections / joint use of RDF and mformats |
| 21:10:07 | <Wikier> | I don't know, but other years videos are available <http://www.fundamentosweb.org/2006/programa/> |
| 21:10:54 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: RDFa is powerful |
| 21:11:23 | <CaptSolo> | tuukkah: some links that can be useful for Straw discussion page: |
| 21:11:28 | <CaptSolo> | http://rdfs.org/sioc/applications/ |
| 21:11:43 | <CaptSolo> | http://rdfs.org/sioc/related/ |
| 21:12:05 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: it is. some could say you don't need any microformats if you have RDFa |
| 21:12:09 | <CaptSolo> | what's your position? |
| 21:12:48 | <CaptSolo> | ah, Tantek will talk about the social network portability |
| 21:12:56 | <CaptSolo> | i wonder what'll be there |
| 21:13:07 | <CaptSolo> | the question is important, the approaches may be different |
| 21:13:19 | <Wikier> | certain |
| 21:13:27 | <Wikier> | CaptSolo: I prefer RDFa |
| 21:13:43 | <Wikier> | it has a formal semantic, microformat not |
| 21:13:45 | <tuukkah> | CaptSolo, right, this is one of those registration-required wikis :-( but thanks, i'll add them !-) |
| 21:15:06 | <CaptSolo> | http://microformats.org/wiki/gender-examples |
| 21:15:14 | <Wikier> | well guys, I go to read something before go to bed |
| 21:15:15 | <Wikier> | cu |
| 21:15:18 | <CaptSolo> | cu |
| 21:15:48 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: mformats may be difficult to parse, once you have to consider combinations of a number of them together |
| 21:16:06 | <CaptSolo> | is there a study of this? |
| 21:16:17 | <CaptSolo> | for RDFa, you just parse it |
| 21:16:28 | <Wikier> | I'll will ask it to Tantek |
| 21:16:35 | <CaptSolo> | Wikier: perfect! :) |
| 21:16:42 | <Wikier> | RDFa is easy to parse |
| 21:17:01 | <Wikier> | I sent some patches for Herman's parser |
| 21:17:24 | <Wikier> | well, cu |
| 21:18:59 | <CaptSolo> | good night |
| 21:19:02 | <CaptSolo> | i am going too |
| 21:19:50 | <tuukkah> | good night! |
| 21:32:00 | <CaptSolo> | you too |
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